Meanwhile, in Kentucky

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temporal1
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote:
Joy wrote:Josh, I trust you are not suggesting I have brushed off the issue of slavery in American history. A few years ago I personally apologized to a black Sunday School class for the issue of American slavery. I have spent a large portion of my life ministering to the descendants of slaves, as my parents did, even to the point of death threats to our face.
It's not something I need to personally apologise for; however, it is something that should refute any idea that America is a "Christian" nation founded on "Christian" principles. The Constitution is not the kingdom of heaven but is in fact the opposite of it.
o. ok. now i see what you're aiming at. not in this thread, please.
that's a bunny trail, please go there, or, start a new thread on people you hate.

no one here fits your description, it's offensive to read such accusations. please stop it.

i have do my best to communicate with you, your response is to throw out a few words/talking points to dismiss anything you perceive to be offensive, whether true or false. maybe more reading, less tossing other people under the bus?

if you or i, or both of us together ever accomplished a fraction of our Lord's work as Joy has, and does, that would be a miracle .. and, she is one of many on this forum. presume nothing.
this forum is a privilege for folks to participate in, there are very special souls present, approach with respect. please. :)
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by Josh »

Huh? I have no quarrel with Joy, although my approach is a little different than hers.

I do have a quarrel with talking constantly about the "good old days" and how America used to be great, but isn't now. When we do so, we completely ignore just how bad and evil America was in the 1700s and 1800s.

America also holds the distinction of throwing Anabaptists into prison in the 1910s for the crime of not picking up guns to shoot fellow human beings in World War I. Some died in prison. And Anabaptists didn't fight on either side in the Revolutionary War. For that many were viewed as traitors to the new republic.
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temporal1
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by temporal1 »

Joy wrote:When I see someone wearing an "American slavery--never forget" T-shirt, it makes me wonder how much thought they give to present day slaves, many of whom, I would guess, are treated much worse than America's, on the average.

CNN reports a study showing 35.8 million slaves worldwide, in every one of the 167 countries surveyed. The highest percentage was in Mauritania, the eleventh largest country in Africa, with 4% of its population in bondage.

A subject truly worthy of daily prayers.
i'm glad you addressed this.
my thoughts were on modern day slavery, too .. as i was thinking, i decided i must be like a lot of people: we hear the words, but, it's so hard to imagine the reality!!
we hear+read, but, we think, "it can't be!!" :(

from Jesus' teachings we learn the sad reality. without Him, we are all slaves, even if our own making. our minds can hold us captive in horrible prisons, Jesus can set us free, even when our physical bodies are in chains. one of the most terrifying things about Christianity to oppressors! they hate that! they resort to all manner things in attempt to kill the Spirit. they did it in Jesus' time on earth, they're still at it.

last winter, i saw a video partly about Perpetua. quite an example.
i haven't yet studied this link on her, but, "her prison became her palace" are words that are hard to forget:
http://www.christianity.com/church/chur ... 35048.html
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temporal1
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by temporal1 »

Joy, i just read this today.
Not a typical public school graduation speech.
There's a timely message in there, one, i think, that must have special meaning for Christians:


JOHN ROBERTS:
From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice. I hope that you will suffer betrayal because that will teach you the importance of loyalty. Sorry to say, but I hope you will be lonely from time to time so that you don't take friends for granted. I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
i forwarded it on to my family.
i hope they read before they delete. :P
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Joy
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by Joy »

Josh wrote: It's not something I need to personally apologise for;
Nor do I, as I never owned slaves, and none of my ancestors did, as far as I know.

But I acknowledged their ancestors' misery, even though the people I was speaking to were never slaves.
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2Tim. 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by Joy »

temporal1 wrote:Joy, i just read this today.
Not a typical public school graduation speech.
There's a timely message in there, one, i think, that must have special meaning for Christians:


JOHN ROBERTS:
From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice. I hope that you will suffer betrayal because that will teach you the importance of loyalty. Sorry to say, but I hope you will be lonely from time to time so that you don't take friends for granted. I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
i forwarded it on to my family.
i hope they read before they delete. :P
A startling message for young people, but one we would do well to remember.

Reminds me of the young lady working with geriatric products, that went undercover as old ladies (bag lady, wealthy lady, middle class, etc.) to discover the needs and trials of elderly people. She was spit on, cheated, attacked, and yet some people were very kind to her.

If we could walk in other people's shoes for a time....
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2Tim. 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Josh wrote:Maybe this is a good question to ask:

What do you trust government to do?
One could only be comfortable with the government teaching Religion if one would be comfortable with Mormonism being taught in public schools in Utah or Roman Catholicism being taught in Massachusetts.

J.M.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Joy wrote:
temporal1 wrote:Joy, i just read this today.
Not a typical public school graduation speech.
There's a timely message in there, one, i think, that must have special meaning for Christians:


JOHN ROBERTS:
From time to time in the years to come, I hope you will be treated unfairly so that you will come to know the value of justice. I hope that you will suffer betrayal because that will teach you the importance of loyalty. Sorry to say, but I hope you will be lonely from time to time so that you don't take friends for granted. I wish you bad luck, again, from time to time so that you will be conscious of the role of chance in life and understand that your success is not completely deserved and that the failure of others is not completely deserved either.
i forwarded it on to my family.
i hope they read before they delete. :P
A startling message for young people, but one we would do well to remember.

Reminds me of the young lady working with geriatric products, that went undercover as old ladies (bag lady, wealthy lady, middle class, etc.) to discover the needs and trials of elderly people. She was spit on, cheated, attacked, and yet some people were very kind to her.

If we could walk in other people's shoes for a time....
Remember, he is talking to the children of Privilege here. This private school charges more than either of my children's college tuition for a year and it is a junior high!

J.M.
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temporal1
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by temporal1 »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Josh wrote:Maybe this is a good question to ask:
What do you trust government to do?
One could only be comfortable with the government teaching Religion if one would be comfortable with Mormonism being taught in public schools in Utah or Roman Catholicism being taught in Massachusetts.
J.M.
if you return to the OP, i think you might see, maybe not, that the KY proposal has nothing to do with gov teaching religion. at least, not as i understand it, and, this has not been legal in the U.S. for years.

this proposal is about an elective course to present the Bible as a book.

example: there are any number of PBS-type documentaries on the Bible, i have watched and enjoyed a number over many years. these documentaries walk thru all sorts of scriptural history, often putting these events in perspective of general world history. there is no prayer or worship. they sometimes describe prayer and worship.

there is so much to be known! this is not about evangelizing, but, if the Holy Spirit moved a person, all this information could certainly enhance that experience, and help it come to life.

the way things are, the mountain of Christian history is ignored in public schools, which, in my view, is .. ridiculous. to repeat, in my view, like ignoring "the elephant in the living room."

do some Christians want to use public schools to evangelize! no doubt.
"some people" can be found to make some kind of case for anything in this world.

from the little i know about this proposal, i think it's a good idea.
no matter what children experience, over time in their lives, they will accept or reject, they will pursue or abandon. the Holy Spirit will choose who will be touched with Light.
gov cannot control Light, no more than parents can.

offering the Bible could help young people realize there IS history!
U.S. schools offer very little ancient history, world history. a course like this could open some eyes, give some perspective. without being Sunday school or church.

i see quite a lot of this kind of thing, and, i get a lot out of it. it definitely adds depth to my faith.
the ultimate is to enhance faith. but no need for schools to go there. not necessary. and, not legal.

possibly most on this forum do not view these types of videos.
that's ok. i'm not suggesting anyone "do as i do."
my thoughts here are for public school children - who deserve a whole lot better than what they're getting.

a recent example of a video series i enjoy:
Ancient Roads
https://www.aptonline.org/catalog.nsf/v ... ONSTANTINE
Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Joy wrote:
temporal1 wrote:Joy, i just read this today.
Not a typical public school graduation speech.
There's a timely message in there, one, i think, that must have special meaning for Christians:



i forwarded it on to my family.
i hope they read before they delete. :P
A startling message for young people, but one we would do well to remember.

Reminds me of the young lady working with geriatric products, that went undercover as old ladies (bag lady, wealthy lady, middle class, etc.) to discover the needs and trials of elderly people. She was spit on, cheated, attacked, and yet some people were very kind to her.

If we could walk in other people's shoes for a time....
Remember, he is talking to the children of Privilege here. This private school charges more than either of my children's college tuition for a year and it is a junior high!
J.M.
context is interesting, but, i believe his point to be universal.
on this forum, in the past, the thought has been shared that most living in the U.S. live in privilege, compared to many other cultures in the world. i live modestly, some would view it as poor, maybe gov does? .. i do not. things are tight, alright, still, i believe i live in privilege.

another thought is about how Christians do best under duress. or, on our knees. :)
we don't do very well in times of plenty, apathy and ambivalence tend to set in. not good.

Justice Roberts was not speaking directly from a Christian perspective, but, as i read, as a Christian, i "felt" a definite impact from his chosen words.

that's one of my "bugaboos" about how government is behaving presently.
i see a lot of "lifting" of scriptural principles going on, with the attempt to squeeze Jesus right out of the "formula." (i wince.) :-|

i'm not certain that's what Justice Roberts was attempting to do here, but, maybe.
i do not know a lot about his politics or rulings.
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Re: Meanwhile, in Kentucky

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote:this proposal is about an elective course to present the Bible as a book.

example: there are any number of PBS-type documentaries on the Bible, i have watched and enjoyed a number over many years. these documentaries walk thru all sorts of scriptural history, often putting these events in perspective of general world history. there is no prayer or worship. they sometimes describe prayer and worship.
A school could legally offer a course where that PBS series was shown and discussed. There's no need for a new law to do that.

In general, I am suspicious when legislators want to decide what is taught in schools, and even more suspicious when the Bible or religion are involved. Sometimes politicians do play politics. When I student taught, my supervising teacher was baffled that I would not lead the children in the Pledge of Allegiance, which I considered idolatry, and she wasn't sure how to accommodate that. She didn't want me to set a bad example for the children, and she saw the pledge as a way of advancing Christianity, teaching that the United States is "one nation, under God". She never did understand how a Christian might see that differently.

Most of us here have some Mennonite background. And Mennonites are very aware of the dangers of being persecuted by very religious Christians aligned with the State.
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Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
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