Bootstrap wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:42 am
JohnHurt wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:12 am
Today, only the Pharisee Talmud Followers are called "Jews".
Where is this definition coming from? I don't think that's even remotely true. Most people we call Jews today do not follow the Talmud. Only 17% of American Jews even keep kosher.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 ... cans-03-0/
Jews are generally less religious than most Americans. Less likely to go to religious services. Less likely to say religion is important to them. Less likely to believe in God or the Bible.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... americans/
About one-in-ten Jewish Americans (12%) say they attend religious services at least weekly in a synagogue, temple or less formal setting – such as a havurah or independent minyan – compared with about a quarter of U.S. adults who say they attend religious services weekly or more (27%).
U.S. Jews are also less likely than the overall U.S. public to say religion is “very important” to them (21% vs. 41%). Slightly more than half of Jews say religion is “not too” or “not at all important” in their lives, compared with one-third of Americans overall who say the same. There are even bigger gaps when it comes to belief in God: Around a quarter of Jews (26%) say they believe in God “as described in the Bible,” while 56% of all U.S. adults say this.
So I agree that modern Jews look different than Jews in the time of Jesus. Life in Jerusalem revolved around the Jewish temple. They strongly believed in the Bible. But I don't think that most modern Jews follow the Talmud at all, and they probably don't know much about what it contains.
When I use the word "Jewish" to refer to Jesus, I am using the Bible's definition of that word, the definition that Jews and Samaritans and Romans had in mind when they called Jesus a Jew.
The "Jews" are a cultural identity. Always have been, since the return from Babylon.
The Jews have always been a mixture of different peoples.
Converted nations, groups or tribes
Converted nations, groups or tribes from non-Abrahamic religions
Conversions throughout the Babylonian, Persian, Hellenistic and Roman Empire periods[2][3][4][5] (actual numbers and extent of proselytization disputed[6][7][8]) See the article on Proselyte; a term which originally referred specifically to Hellenistic converts to Judaism.[9][10]
Idumeans (disputed[11][12]), Edom, 2nd century BCE, conquered and converted by John Hyrcanus[13][14][15]
Ituraeans (disputed[16]), Lebanon and Syria, 2nd century BCE, who according to Josephus, were conquered and converted by Aristobulus I[15][17][18][19]
Adiabene, northern Iraq, 1st century
Helena, queen of Adiabene, from traditional Greek religion[20]
Izates bar Monobaz, king of Adiabene, from a Persian or Mideastern religion[20]
Symacho, wife of Izates bar Monobaz, from a Persian or Mideastern religion[21]
Monobaz II, king of Adiabene, from a Persian or Mideastern religion[20]
Khazars (disputed[22][23][24]), a semi-nomadic Turkic people from Central Asia (historical Khazaria), many of whom converted to Judaism en masse in the 8th and 9th centuries CE from a Khazar religion[25][26]
Bulan, king of the Khazars, from a traditional Khazar religion[27][28]
Crimean Karaites and Krymchaks are also Turkic peoples which underwent conversion.[29]
Samaw'al ibn 'Adiya and his clan
Himyarite Kingdom, Yemen, 6th century
Tub'a Abu Kariba As'ad, from Arabian religion, Himyarite king of Yemen; ruled Yemen 390–420 CE
Dhu Nuwas, king of Yemen, from a Mideastern religion[30]
Kingdom of Semien, Ethiopia, 4th century
Multiple Berber tribes noted by Ibn Khaldun, including the Jarawa, and possibly the warrior queen Kahina and her tribe. northwest Africa, 7th century, disputed
Banu Qurayza and Banu Nadir, Arab Tribes who converted to Judaism when Jews arrived in Hijaz after Second Jewish-Roman Wars, Arab tribes were interested in Judaism which was brought by Jews. Later, they adopted and claimed to be Israelites. They were Arabian origins still believed sons of god concept from indigenous polytheistic beliefs.
Converted nations, groups or tribes from Christianity
Abayudaya[31]
Bnei Menashe[32]
Bene Ephraim, claim to be Jews who converted to Christianity, then converted back to Judaism[33]
B'nai Moshe (Inca Jews)[34]
Falash Mura
San Nicandro Jews[35]
Subbotniks
Veracruz Jews[36]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... to_Judaism
If you can tell me how all of these different groups of people can be the same "race" from the Tribe of Judah, I would be interested.
The concept of a Jewish "race" originated with Theodor Herzl and the Zionist Movement in 1890. Before Zionism was invented, Judaism consisted of many different people sharing a cultural identity.
One result of Zionism is that a few years ago, there was controversy in the State of Israel about "Who is a Jew?" The Ashkenazi Jews wanted to ban the Ethiopian Jews from entering Palestine, based on their race. The Sephardic and Oriental Jews were also at odds with the Ashkenazi. This debate cause a LOT of division in the State of israel.
The answer is, Judaism is a culture, and not a race of any one group of people.
Remember that King Herod the Great and all of his relatives were from Idumea, or Edomite Jews descended from Esau, and not Jacob/Israel.
Herod was not an Israelite, but was still a Jew.
Here is the proof:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#Biography
So some Jews were not Israelites, even at the time of Christ. That is a fact. Yet they were still called "Jews". Why is that? It is cultural, not racial.
And it is a fact that the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8) is made with Israel, who are the children of Jacob, and the New Covenant was not made with the children of Esau. Perhaps that is why they don't convert to Christianity.
And it is a fact that James 1:1 was written to the 12 Tribes of Israel scattered around the world, as the 12 Tribes (including Judah) had already converted to Christianity. Otherwise, James would not be writing to them in this manner.
Israel converted to Christianity, and has been the foundation of the Church since the beginning of Christianity.
Christ is the King of Israel. John 1:49, Jeremiah 23:5, Matt 21:5. Christ was never the King of the Pharisees. And for the Romans to call Him the "King of the Jews" is derogatory in nature. It is not true, it is a slander. The same is true when we do it.
Israel converted to Christianity, leaving behind the Pharisees to continue with their practice of Judaism.
The Jews of today are the Pharisees:
The Pharisees
The most important of the three were the Pharisees because they are the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism. Their main distinguishing characteristic was a belief in an Oral Law that God gave to Moses at Sinai along with the Torah. The Torah, or Written Law, was akin to the U.S. Constitution in the sense that it set down a series of laws that were open to interpretation. The Pharisees believed that God also gave Moses the knowledge of what these laws meant and how they should be applied. This oral tradition was codified and written down roughly three centuries later in what is known as the Talmud.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ph ... nd-essenes
I would not call Jesus a Jew. The Words of Christ in Matthew 23 has to be the most sublime denunciation of Judaism ever recorded. Study what Christ said in Matthew 23, and you will learn more about "Judaism" from Christ Himself than you will ever hear in a "church".
Please do not call Christ a Jew. That is the doctrine of the Adversary. Jesus is a Christian, not a Jew. That should be self evident.
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."
