The first Christian Church was Jewish

[JohnHurt]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Lots of people are called "Jews" who are atheists and don't believe in or follow God at all and who certainly don't follow the Talmud.

Orthodox, Conservative, and Liberal Jews. And Atheist Jews like George Soros.

Neither liberal (I assume you mean Reform) nor atheists follow the Talmud or even would go so far as keeping simple kashrut.

They are cultural Jews.

For the non-religious Jews, it is like being born into a "club" that works together for common survival, or common gain over other people who are not in the same club.

The Masonic Temples are nearly identical in purpose to the club of Judaism. People join the Masons for social and business reasons.

No Christian should ever be a Mason, as Masonry serves another "god".

I understand that a lot of the Masonic Rites are fashioned after the Kabbala (the Jewish mystical writings).

[Bootstrap]

Wife: I’ve seen some of the Targum and maybe some Talmud, and found it odd and wasn’t impressed. Some of the stuff they say about Solomon just sounds wacky. I’d say that about a lot of religions, though, especially Mormonism and the little I’ve read of the Koran, so I don’t think that makes modern religious Jews any worse than any other religion, and I don’t actually know every observant group’s opinions on the Talmud etc. Most of the Jews I personally know are Jewish in ethnicity only.

Our job is to seek first the Kingdom of God as Jesus taught it. Together. In the early Church, they learned that meant including Gentiles too, and making room for Gentiles who did not practice Jewish customs. Our job is to testify to Jesus. The following applies to both Jew and Genitle.

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

[JohnHurt]

Our job is to testify to Jesus.

I agree with that 100%.

No other religion is superior to Christ. There is no other way to the Father but by His Son, Jesus Christ.

As Christ said:

John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No Jew will ever find God without coming to Jesus Christ.

Here is what Our Lord said to those Jews that believed on Him, and those that did not:

John 8:(28) Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

(29) And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

(30) As he spake these words, many believed on him.

(31) Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

(32) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

(33) They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

(34) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

(35) And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

(36) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

(37) I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

(38) I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

(40) But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

(41) Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

(42) Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

(43) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

(44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

(45) And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

(46) Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

(47) He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

(48) Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

(49) Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

(50) And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

(51) Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

(52) Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

(53) Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

(54) Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

(55) Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

(56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

(57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

(58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

(59) Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

[JohnHurt]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Lots of people are called "Jews" who are atheists and don't believe in or follow God at all and who certainly don't follow the Talmud.

Orthodox, Conservative, and Liberal Jews. And Atheist Jews like George Soros.

Neither liberal (I assume you mean Reform) nor atheists follow the Talmud or even would go so far as keeping simple kashrut.

Judaism for many is cultural.

Christ never followed the Talmud as an Orthodox Jew, nor could Christ ever be defined as a liberal or atheist Jew. So Christ wasn't a Jew in the modern sense of the word.

I remember the Sabbath Day, and I try to keep the Seventh Day holy. A far as organized religion, there is not a lot of 7th Day Christian churches, just Seventh Day Adventist (where they worship Ellen White), United Church of God (Armstrong Cult), and various Messianic Christian groups.

The Messianic Christian churches can range from simple "homesteaders" or "back to nature" Sabbath keepers, all the way over to full blown Judaism with a Christian mask that converts Christians into Jews.

The worst Messianic Judaizing churches will have a Jewish Rabbi leading it, and teaching Christians to follow not just the Torah, but also the Talmud.

They pretend they follow the Laws of God, or the Torah, but they really follow the doctrines of men, which is the Talmud.

If you want to light a fire under them, ask them why they follow the Talmud when Moses said not to add to, or diminish the word of God:

Deut 4:(2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

The Talmud is a complete fabrication of men. Christ said as much in Matthew 15. A Messianic Jewish Rabbi will give you some unbelievable story that the Seventy in Numbers 11:16 were told "by Moses" to memorize the Oral Law, which became the Talmud.

When they tell you this garbage, then ask them why Christ condemned the Oral Law in Matthew 15. That is when they start yelling at you and asking you to leave. And you should.

These Messianic Jews, and all Jews, follow the doctrines of men, per Christ in Matthew 15. And it is not just the Jews, the Christians do it too.

Dispensationalism is the doctrine of men (Darby). Covenant Theology is the doctrine of men. (Calvin). The "Two Kingdoms" is a doctrine of men (Augustine, Luther, Calvin).

Only Christ should be our teacher (Matthew 23:8,10) We need no other doctrines. We don't have to understand anything but what Christ teaches.

One thing the Jews, and the Muslims have in common, is that they can see what is wrong with Christianity, while we are blind to our own problems. They both see that Paul has destroyed the Doctrines of Christ, and replaced the Doctrines of Christ with his own opinions.

No church today teaches the things that Christ taught, if it conflicts with Paul. Paul is the "god" or lawmaker of the Christian church. Paul is superior in every way to Jesus Christ in the modern "church".

A Muslim and a Jew will both tell you that they will never follow Paul because he abolished the Laws of God. For this reason, they will never convert from Islam or Judaism to the modern form of Christianity.

Muslims and Jews also oppose graven images, these idols of Christ, or pictures of Christ, and graven images of the dead "saints" that many bow down and worship. Christians also take His Name in vain, and have forgotten the Sabbath day.

And there is a lot of paganism in the Christian church today. The church steeple, dedicated to the rising of the sun, the Easter egg hunt from an egg laying rabbit, Easter Ham, Easter itself as a "holy Day" to replace Passover, and the abomination called "Christmas" which is a mixture of Mithras' birthday and Saturnalia. Christmas is the commercialization of Christ for profit, and in this way they take His Holy Name in vain.

I think when any of us point the finger at how bad the Jews are, with their ridiculous Talmud and doctrines of men, we need to look in the mirror to see the same errors in what we practice as well.

Have a great day.

John

[apd]

I remember the Sabbath Day, and I try to keep the Seventh Day holy. A far as organized religion, there is not a lot of 7th Day Christian churches, just Seventh Day Adventist (where they worship Ellen White), United Church of God (Armstrong Cult), and various Messianic Christian groups.

There's also the Seventh Day Baptists and the German Seventh Day Baptists.

[JohnHurt]

I remember the Sabbath Day, and I try to keep the Seventh Day holy. A far as organized religion, there is not a lot of 7th Day Christian churches, just Seventh Day Adventist (where they worship Ellen White), United Church of God (Armstrong Cult), and various Messianic Christian groups.

There's also the Seventh Day Baptists and the German Seventh Day Baptists.

Thanks for the information. I have studied this problem for many years. I really miss not having a church home. I loved the praise, singing, and worship, and the fellowship with like minded people.

There are not any Seventh Day Baptist churches near me. There was one in Nashville, TN, but it disbanded. There is a General Conference Church of God Seventh Day in Rock Island, TN, which is about an hour away.

What you run into, is that these various 7th day churches still elevate the writings of Paul as being superior to the Doctrines of Christ.

My religious position is to study only the Four Gospels, and ignore the rest of the New Testament Canon, a list of books created by the Catholic church. These other books may be interesting, but Christ specifically told us to teach only His Doctrines, and did not authorize us to teach the doctrines of other men. Matthew 28:20

Christ said that there will be a deception in the latter days that will deceive the very elect. Matt 24:24. They will worship men like Paul who claimed he saw Christ in the desert, or Ananias who claimed he saw Christ in his secret chambers, (Acts 9) which Christ said could not happen. Matt 24:26 Joseph Smith of the Mormons claimed to see Christ, as did Ellen White with her visions. The people that make these claims, including Paul, they are all liars and are part of this great deception. These people work for the Adversary and their mission is to replace the Law of God with the doctrines of men.

Many will come before Christ with good evidence of great works, yet they will be excluded because they worked iniquity, or lawlessness (Matt 7:21-23) They love church more than Christ. They want the praise of other men more than obedience to what Christ said to do.

Christ said the Law would never be abolished (Matt 5:17-20), yet every modern "Christian" church ignores God's law and replaces it with the doctrines of men.

So I will stay where I am, it is safer here.

Even if a church has figured out that neither Constantine or the Catholic church had the power to move the 7th day Sabbath to Sunday, and they return to keeping the Sabbath that God gave us in Genesis 2:2 on the 7th day, I have never seen even one of the 7th day churches that will follow Christ in what He says, like eternal life is found by keeping the 10 Commandments, (Matt 19:16-19), or by helping the poor and needy (Matt 25:31-46) They believe that you are saved by faith through grace. Eph 2:8 This is a deception.

And it would be so simple for them to obey Christ. Just follow what Christ said, and ignore the rest of the books that Constantine and the Catholics put in the NT canon. But if you tell them that, they will brand you as a heretic.

No church will teach John 13:16, from Young's Literal Translation:

13:16 verily, verily, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his lord, nor an apostle greater than he who sent him;

None of them believe that Christ is superior to Paul. Not one. That is where we are. That is the the test. If you pass this test, you will never be able to set foot inside a church building again. There is no real church, except for you and God together, and alone in following His Commandments. But you also won't be counted as part of the "everyone" in Matthew 7:21. And God will take care of you, He will never let you fail when you dedicate yourself to Him.

Nice talking to you.

John

[Soloist]

If everyone is wrong but you, the analogy of the broken finger is very accurate.