Mordecai and Esther were evil

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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by Bootstrap »

justme wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 4:38 pm
Lex wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:37 am I believe that in the story of Esther, the real bad guys were Mordecai and Esther.
Seriously???
Lex seems to get his "knowledge" of the Bible from Anti-Semitic websites. Once again, simply reading the text he refers to disproves his claims.

Mordecai and Esther saved the lives of the Jewish people.
Then Queen Esther answered, “If I have found favor with you, Your Majesty, and if it pleases you, grant me my life—this is my petition. And spare my people—this is my request. For I and my people have been sold to be destroyed, killed and annihilated. If we had merely been sold as male and female slaves, I would have kept quiet, because no such distress would justify disturbing the king.”
The end of the book praises Mordecai:
King Xerxes imposed tribute throughout the empire, to its distant shores. And all his acts of power and might, together with a full account of the greatness of Mordecai, whom the king had promoted, are they not written in the book of the annals of the kings of Media and Persia? Mordecai the Jew was second in rank to King Xerxes, preeminent among the Jews, and held in high esteem by his many fellow Jews, because he worked for the good of his people and spoke up for the welfare of all the Jews.
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

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I’m sure he belongs to the camp that believes the additions are not true.
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by DarkShallNotPrevail »

Drat, and here I thought Purim was a safe alternative to celebrate for the kids! Time to appropriate a different holiday, I guess... :roll:
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by Josh »

DarkShallNotPrevail wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:17 pm Drat, and here I thought Purim was a safe alternative to celebrate for the kids! Time to appropriate a different holiday, I guess... :roll:
I would feel uncomfortable with the traditional part of a Purim celebration where all the Gentiles being killed is celebrated. Doesn’t feel appropriate for an NT Christian.
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by DarkShallNotPrevail »

Josh wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:25 pm
DarkShallNotPrevail wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:17 pm Drat, and here I thought Purim was a safe alternative to celebrate for the kids! Time to appropriate a different holiday, I guess... :roll:
I would feel uncomfortable with the traditional part of a Purim celebration where all the Gentiles being killed is celebrated. Doesn’t feel appropriate for an NT Christian.
Or for a children's celebration. Obviously.
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

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Josh wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:25 pm
DarkShallNotPrevail wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:17 pm Drat, and here I thought Purim was a safe alternative to celebrate for the kids! Time to appropriate a different holiday, I guess... :roll:
I would feel uncomfortable with the traditional part of a Purim celebration where all the Gentiles being killed is celebrated. Doesn’t feel appropriate for an NT Christian.
I understand the Jewish children would make a "Haman Doll", get in a circle and kick it to celebrate "Purim".

Not once is YHVH mentioned in the Book of Esther. The story is about revenge, and a beauty pageant for the queen, both ideas are alien to the rest of the Bible. And there is no historical proof to back it it up.

Esther is a fabrication, or perhaps, a retelling of a much older story from Babylon that has been reformatted.

Here is what Wikipedia said about the Book of Esther:
Historicity

Although the details of the setting are entirely plausible and the story may even have some basis in actual events, there is general agreement among scholars that the book of Esther is a work of fiction.[12] Persian kings did not marry outside of seven Persian noble families, making it unlikely that there was a Jewish queen Esther.[13][5][c] Further, the name Ahasuerus can be translated to Xerxes, as both derive from the Persian Khshayārsha.[14][15] Ahasuerus as described in the Book of Esther is usually identified in modern sources to refer to Xerxes I,[16][17] who ruled between 486 and 465 BCE,[14] as it is to this monarch that the events described in Esther are thought to fit the most closely.[15][18] Xerxes I's queen was Amestris, further highlighting the fictitious nature of the story.[13][5][d]

Some scholars speculate that the story was created to justify the Jewish appropriation of an originally non-Jewish feast.[19] The festival which the book explains is Purim, which is explained as meaning "lot", from the Babylonian word puru. One popular theory says the festival has its origins in a historicized Babylonian myth or ritual in which Mordecai and Esther represent the Babylonian gods Marduk and Ishtar, while others trace the ritual to the Persian New Year, and scholars have surveyed other theories in their works.[20] Some scholars have defended the story as real history,[21] but the attempt to find a historical kernel to the narrative "is likely to be futile".[20]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esther#Historicity
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by Soloist »

Wife: to be fair, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were all Babylonian names too, and even if it doesn’t directly reference God in the mesoric text, it talks about them proclaiming a fast for three days, and also, when Mordecai warned Esther that she and her offspring will not be safe in the palace and help will spring up from another source, that also seems to be an indirect reference to God.

Also, Jesus had 12 disciples not 10, and didn’t build His cross to kill someone else with first.
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by Josh »

Esther is one of the books of the Bible. Who are we to decide to take a pair of scissors to the scriptures?
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by ohio jones »

The bottom line is, the OP would have preferred that Haman succeeded in annihilating The Jews.

But no Jews, no Jesus.
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Re: Mordecai and Esther were evil

Post by Lex »

ohio jones wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:36 pm But no Jews, no Jesus.
In other words, you are saying that God couldn't have accomplished his plan without the Jews. In other words, you are saying that God is dependent on something. In other words, you are saying that God isn't almighty. This is blasphemy. God doesn't need anyone or anything to accomplish his plan. He would not have needed the Jews to bring the Messiah. If the Jews had not existed, God would've just used another people. God is not dependent on anything.

Even God wanted to annihilate the people of Israel twice, but twice he was prevented from doing so (Ex 32:9-10, Num 16:44-45). What do you say to this? And what do you say to the fact that God himself calls Israel the worst people in the world (Ezek 3:6-7, Ezek 5:6-7)?
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