Mordecai and Esther were evil

[JohnHurt]

But no Jews, no Jesus.

In other words, you are saying that God couldn't have accomplished his plan without the Jews. In other words, you are saying that God is dependent on something. In other words, you are saying that God isn't almighty. This is blasphemy. God doesn't need anyone or anything to accomplish his plan. He would not have needed the Jews to bring the Messiah. If the Jews had not existed, God would've just used another people. God is not dependent on anything.

Even God wanted to annihilate the people of Israel twice, but twice he was prevented from doing so (Ex 32:9-10, Num 16:44-45). What do you say to this? And what do you say to the fact that God himself calls Israel the worst people in the world (Ezek 3:6-7, Ezek 5:6-7)?

Lex, I think you have a valid point. God does not need the "Jews" to accomplish His plan. God's Plan to send Christ to redeem the world has been opposed by the Jews, as they oppose Christ. So God doesn't need the Jews at all now. That is a great point.

So what are the "Jews", and why do they not convert to Christianity?

Here is what I have studied:

Around 100 BC, the Israelite leader John Hyrcanus, a descendant of Jacob, conquered the Idumeans, or Edomites, who are the children of Esau. Hyrcanus forcibly converted these Edomites to become Jews, and a large number of Jews in the 1st century are the children of Esau.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hyrcanus#Conquests

Herod the Great was born in Idumea, and his father was an Edomite. Herod was a descendant of Esau, not Jacob/Israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#Biography

When the family of Herod ruled Palestine, the children of Esau became the religious leaders over the children of Jacob/Israel.

The children of Esau have always been hostile to the children of Jacob, due to Jacob receiving the birthright (Gen 25:31) and the blessing (Gen 27). Esau has always wanted to kill Jacob for this reason. (Gen 27:41) The Edomites have always been enemies of the children of Jacob/Israel (Numbers 20:14-21), even before they were born. (Gen 25:22)

This hatred of the children of Jacob by the children of Esau explains why the Herodians were enemies of Christ (Mark 3:6, Mark 12:13, Matt 22:16), and why Herod had no problem killing John the Baptist (Matt 14:3-12).

It also explains why these Edomite religious leaders wanted to kill Peter for saying that they had killed Christ (Acts 5:28-33), and did kill Stephen for saying they had killed Christ (Acts 7:51-54), yet when the average child of Jacob/Israel heard that he was responsible for the death of Christ, he converted to Christianity and became the foundation of the Church. (Act 2:36-41) Two different reactions by two different peoples.

The promise of the New Covenant under Christ is that it was made with both the House of Israel (the 10 Northern Tribes), and the House of Judah (the 2 Southern Tribes).

Hebrews 8:(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

All of the Twelve Tribes of Israel have converted to Christ and are now in the Church, scattered around the world:

James 1:(1) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

The Edomite Jews, or children of Esau, are still a part of the "Jews" of today, and this explains why they will not convert to Christianity. God loved Jacob, but hated Esau. (Malachi 1;2-3) These Edomite Jews are not of God, as Christ said. (John 8:42-47) That is why they will never follow Christ.

The same dynamic is not quite as true today. The Judaism of today is a religion of converts. Marilyn Monroe and Sammy Davis Jr both converted to Judaism. King Bulan in 800 AD led his entire country of Khazaria to convert to Judaism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulan_(Khazar). There are Ethiopian Jews that are converts. The Sephardic Jews, or "Sepharvaim" were early converts to Judaism. (2 Kings 17:24) Judaism is made up of many different groups of people today, and none of them are Israel.

The idea to call this mixed followers of the religion of Judaism a "chosen race of Israel" started with Herzl and the rise of Zionism in 1890. To say that every Jew today is a child of Jacob/Israel has no historical basis and is incorrect. It is a new idea by Herzl, less than 150 years old.

It is also incorrect to blame every Jew for the crimes of Zionism and the "State of Israel". There are "Jews Against Zionism" and other groups that oppose Zionism.

But one thing is certain. No Jew can go to the Father without Christ. As Christ said:

John 14:(6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or atheist can come to the Father, but by Jesus Christ. So no Jew can claim to be "God's Chosen People" and hope to go to the Father, while rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ. Most Christians have been brainwashed by John Hagee and other teachers to look to the Jews as the "founders" of Christianity. No, Christ founded Christianity, and all of "God's Chosen People", or "elect" are now Christians, not Jews.

Every Jew is lost without Christ. Salvation is only through Christ, and not some "race".

And "racism" is a term that is never used to describe Zionism, which apparently is based entirely on "race".

We should pray for the Jews, that "if possible", they might find Christ and follow John 14:6. And we should pray for the Christians that support the Jews, that they might do the same, and follow John 14:6.

Thanks,

John

[Lex]

I have provided enough evidence that Mordecai and Esther are the wicked ones. And I couldn't see anyone here who was able to refute my reasons.

That's only because you are grading your own paper.

Nobody else in this conversation seems to think you have provided evidence that they are the wicked ones. And I, at least, think that several people have shown that you are missing the whole point of the Book of Esther. And of much of the Bible.

Seriously, I'd suggest you sign up for something like The Bible Project and spend time learning the Bible. And steer away from those Anti-Semitic websites, they aren't teaching you what the Bible actually says. And I think it's important to be part of a healthy Christian fellowship.

BibleProject is an organization that supports dispensationalism and does not believe in replacement theology. However, replacement theology was believed by the early church, as well as by the church fathers and the Reformers. The Bible itself teaches replacement theology, that is, the church has replaced Israel, see Matthew 21:43. According to the Bible, the church is now the true Israel of God, see Galatians 6:16.

Are you even an Anabaptist? As far as I know Anabaptists are historically adherents of replacement theology and not dispensationalism.

Do you, like BibleProject, support the massacre in Gaza?

[Josh]

I have provided enough evidence that Mordecai and Esther are the wicked ones. And I couldn't see anyone here who was able to refute my reasons.

That's only because you are grading your own paper.

Nobody else in this conversation seems to think you have provided evidence that they are the wicked ones. And I, at least, think that several people have shown that you are missing the whole point of the Book of Esther. And of much of the Bible.

Seriously, I'd suggest you sign up for something like The Bible Project and spend time learning the Bible. And steer away from those Anti-Semitic websites, they aren't teaching you what the Bible actually says. And I think it's important to be part of a healthy Christian fellowship.

BibleProject is an organization that supports dispensationalism and does not believe in replacement theology. However, replacement theology was believed by the early church, as well as by the church fathers and the Reformers. The Bible itself teaches replacement theology, that is, the church has replaced Israel, see Matthew 21:43. According to the Bible, the church is now the true Israel of God, see Galatians 6:16.

Are you even an Anabaptist? As far as I know Anabaptists are historically adherents of replacement theology and not dispensationalism.

Do you, like BibleProject, support the massacre in Gaza?

I would hold closest to "replacement theology" however I do not hold to Reformed theology or put much stock in systematic theology. I think Christian life is much simpler: Jesus offered his new way first to the Jew, then also to the Greek. Maybe, many Jews believed and started following him. They were the first Christians. In following Jesus to this day, we continue the path that God and Jesus originally laid down for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and King David. But no longer is Jesus' kingdom confined to just a natural nation with natural borders, but is open to all.

There are many Bible study resources that don't follow dispensationalism. Both Bootstrap and myself are opposed to the massacre in Gaza and have had numerous posts saying so here on MennoNet.

[Bootstrap]

BibleProject is an organization that supports dispensationalism and does not believe in replacement theology. However, replacement theology was believed by the early church, as well as by the church fathers and the Reformers. The Bible itself teaches replacement theology, that is, the church has replaced Israel, see Matthew 21:43. According to the Bible, the church is now the true Israel of God, see Galatians 6:16.

Are you even an Anabaptist? As far as I know Anabaptists are historically adherents of replacement theology and not dispensationalism.

Do you, like BibleProject, support the massacre in Gaza?

So you know nothing at all about BibleProject. Or me. Yes, I am Anabaptist, I think that runs deep in my theology. I am not a plain Anabaptist.

I'm not dispensationalist. Neither is BibleProject. I would not have recommended a dispensationalist approach to understanding the Bible. I do not support the massacre in Gaza, or the terrorist act against Jews that largely provoked it. Neither does BibleProject.

Do you claim to be an Anabaptist? On what grounds? What do you think are the most important parts of living out your life as a Christian?

[Lex]

BibleProject is an organization that supports dispensationalism and does not believe in replacement theology. However, replacement theology was believed by the early church, as well as by the church fathers and the Reformers. The Bible itself teaches replacement theology, that is, the church has replaced Israel, see Matthew 21:43. According to the Bible, the church is now the true Israel of God, see Galatians 6:16.

Are you even an Anabaptist? As far as I know Anabaptists are historically adherents of replacement theology and not dispensationalism.

Do you, like BibleProject, support the massacre in Gaza?

So you know nothing at all about BibleProject. Or me. Yes, I am Anabaptist, I think that runs deep in my theology. I am not a plain Anabaptist.

I'm not dispensationalist. Neither is BibleProject. I would not have recommended a dispensationalist approach to understanding the Bible. I do not support the massacre in Gaza, or the terrorist act against Jews that largely provoked it. Neither does BibleProject.

Do you claim to be an Anabaptist? On what grounds? What do you think are the most important parts of living out your life as a Christian?

I know BibleProject and I know that they believe in dispensationalism. Here they try to refute replacement theology by labeling it "anti-Semitic": https://bibleproject.com/podcast/does-c ... de-israel/

Anyone who believes in dispensationalism supports the massacre in Gaza because, according to dispensationalists, it is the will of God to drive out the Palestinians. They take biblical passages from the Old Testament that were fulfilled thousands of years ago and claim they still apply today.

The true church always believed in replacement theology, for example Justin Martyr (2nd century) said: "For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham, are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ."

[Josh]

I know BibleProject and I know that they believe in dispensationalism. Here they try to refute replacement theology by labeling it "anti-Semitic": https://bibleproject.com/podcast/does-c ... de-israel/

Anyone who believes in dispensationalism supports the massacre in Gaza because, according to dispensationalists, it is the will of God to drive out the Palestinians. They take biblical passages from the Old Testament that were fulfilled thousands of years ago and claim they still apply today.

The true church always believed in replacement theology, for example Justin Martyr (2nd century) said: "For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham, are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ."

I think you're confusing "doesn't believe in replacement theology" with "dispensationalist".

[Lex]

I know BibleProject and I know that they believe in dispensationalism. Here they try to refute replacement theology by labeling it "anti-Semitic": https://bibleproject.com/podcast/does-c ... de-israel/

Anyone who believes in dispensationalism supports the massacre in Gaza because, according to dispensationalists, it is the will of God to drive out the Palestinians. They take biblical passages from the Old Testament that were fulfilled thousands of years ago and claim they still apply today.

The true church always believed in replacement theology, for example Justin Martyr (2nd century) said: "For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham, are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ."

I think you're confusing "doesn't believe in replacement theology" with "dispensationalist".

By denying replacement theology, they are saying that Israel is still God's people and thus the old covenant is still active, which is dispensationalism. Read the article.

Do you, like BibleProject, support the massacre in Gaza?

..., or the terrorist act against Jews that largely provoked it.

Josep Borell said: "The Israeli government itself has been boycotting a two-state solution for 30 years. In order to prevent it, they themselves created Hamas. Hamas was funded by the Israeli government to weaken Fatah's Palestinian Authority."

So who gave Hamas the order?

Now Israel has received a justification to commit genocide in Gaza:
Between 7 October 2023 and 1 February 2024, Israeli forces had killed over 27,000 Palestinians – one out of every 85 people in Gaza – averaging 230 killings a day. A majority of victims were civilians, including over 19,000 women and children, and 85 journalists. It is believed that thousands of more dead bodies are under the rubble of destroyed buildings. Destruction of approximately 70% of homes and 50% of buildings in Gaza, 500,000+ experiencing starvation and 1,900,000+ internally displaced persons.

On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 29 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

[Franklin]

This book seems relevant: God and Politics in Esther

[Signtist]

I believe that in the story of Esther, the real bad guys were Mordecai and Esther.

Seriously???

Don't worry. It won't be long before the rest of us aren't holy enough and sandal dust will be shaken in our general direction. Hopefully this happens sooner rather than later.

[JohnHurt]

So who gave Hamas the order?

Now Israel has received a justification to commit genocide in Gaza:
Between 7 October 2023 and 1 February 2024, Israeli forces had killed over 27,000 Palestinians – one out of every 85 people in Gaza – averaging 230 killings a day. A majority of victims were civilians, including over 19,000 women and children, and 85 journalists. It is believed that thousands of more dead bodies are under the rubble of destroyed buildings. Destruction of approximately 70% of homes and 50% of buildings in Gaza, 500,000+ experiencing starvation and 1,900,000+ internally displaced persons.

The events of 7 October 2023 were a little "too perfect".

A rock concert was relocated to the border of Gaza, just 3 days before it starts. They set up large speakers that can be heard in Gaza. Paramotors are seen in the distance, and are on video slowly arriving. The Israeli government has cameras everywhere on the border, and sees everything. An Israeli helicopter base is just a few miles down the road, and does nothing.

It is all planned.

Even the optics were perfect. They have video taken from a paramotor, of another paramotor with a person shooting people from the air, and people running and dying. Videos of people being hunted and killed. Videos of the porta potty toilets being sprayed with machine gun fire killing people hiding inside. Videos of people laying on the ground and hiding behind tree roots. And all of this video released to the world immediately to mold public opinion so that there can be retaliation by Israel against Gaza.

So why not just arrest the people responsible? They have the "Hamas Terrorists" on video, they know what they look like, so why not punish the guilty? Why kill so many innocent people in Gaza?

Because if the Israeli government arrested the guilty, they would be arresting their own operatives. The October 7 2023 incident was a false flag, a pretense for the State of Israel to invade the Gaza strip. Otherwise, the Israeli government would have sent their military to stop this atrocity. The murders went on for over 3 hours, and the Israeli government did nothing.

The people in Gaza are too poor to have paramotors. They are lucky to have enough food to eat. It wasn't them at all.

Cui Bono? Who benefited? It wasn't the people at the concert. And it wasn't the people that live in Gaza. The perpetrators of this crime must be the Israeli government.

And the other guilty party responsible for these murders are all of the dumb Christians that believe that the Balfour Declaration, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 is a fulfillment of Bible Prophecy.

Palestine was an "open country" , open to all faiths in 1948. Now it is a death camp to Muslims or anyone that opposes Judaism.

If there was ever a legitimate demand for "reparations", or to "give back the land to the original inhabitants" - if there was ever a case with the proper legal, moral, and ethical foundation for a return of what was stolen from an entire people, it would be the return of Palestine to the original inhabitants.

And if you are a Christian that supports Israel, right or wrong, and support the murder of these innocent people in Gaza by the Israeli government - their blood is on your hands.

I pray that God punishes only the guilty, and does not destroy all of us for refusing to stand up against this carnage.