Satan - Any real good deeds?

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Josh
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Josh »

Valerie wrote:Guess what- the plane was donated to him by an Arab Sheikh so that he would keep coming back, since so many people were healed where he went- at least this is what was told to me-
That particular aircraft has a number of hobbyists who follow its movements. Amongst its other trips was a stopover in the Caribbean; the 747-SP is also a notoriously fuel inefficient aircraft. It would be much cheaper to send aid overseas via ship or via commercial cargo. If someone donated me a 747-SP for ministry, I would put it up for sale, and then do something else with the money.

Of course, Ernest Angley has his own version of events. Locally, he had trouble complying with wage & hour laws, refusing to pay the waiters and waitresses at his restaurant, The Cathedral Buffet. He was warned a few years ago to stop doing that, but didn't, and continued to use unpaid volunteers from the church to be waiters and waitresses (with diners solicited to pay them tips).

Instead of paying their back wages of $388,000, he chose to just shut the restaurant down. I guess if you don't pay your restaurant staff $388,000, you have enough money to afford fuel for your private, double-decker jet.
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lesterb
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by lesterb »

Valerie wrote: So discouraging, on one thread we're encouraged not to be so suspicious, that it will affect us- in reality, it's getting harder and harder not to be.

(sorry Neto, just responding to this) back to what you are really trying to find out-
This thread isn't promoting suspicion. It's following Jesus' instructions - by there fruits you shall know them.

I'm done Neto. I agree with RZehr's last post.
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Neto
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Neto »

lesterb wrote:
Valerie wrote: So discouraging, on one thread we're encouraged not to be so suspicious, that it will affect us- in reality, it's getting harder and harder not to be.

(sorry Neto, just responding to this) back to what you are really trying to find out-
This thread isn't promoting suspicion. It's following Jesus' instructions - by there fruits you shall know them.

I'm done Neto. I agree with RZehr's last post.
I didn't intend to criticize the need to evaluate people by their fruits - I agree with you there. (I hope my last comments didn't come across that way.) But I'm still trying to understand, from a scriptural point of view, if the Satan is capable (in terms of his power) of doing anything that is actually good. The Scripture tells us that God is good, and that he "will not give a snake to the child who asks for a fish". (He is speaking of the Holy Spirit here, of course.) But the devil is not equal to God in power, and I don't see how he could give anything that is actually good, even with the consideration of the hook. Maybe it's more like a lure, a rubber worm. It looks like a worm, it wriggles like a worm, it even feels like a worm, but in reality it is nothing at all like a worm. It contains no nourishment, only the hook.
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Josh
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

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Prophecy seems to imply Satan used to be the music director in heaven. That seems like it could be a good deed, or at least neutral.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

lesterb wrote:When my mother was young, the Old Order Mennonite church in Ontario had its own unofficial "shaman," a man called Josh Rudy. He could heal sicknesses,and was a friend of my mother's family. I won't tell all the stories of his powers, but they were real, and they fear that he used them to kill at least one child. He healed several of my mother's sisters various times, but apparently was unable to stop their untimely death in the end.

The OOM and Amish call this ability charming, but it isn't that much different from the pagan witch doctors. I think that in most communities this has died out due to better understanding of the Bible.
Is this like Powwowing?

J.M.
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Neto
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Neto »

Josh wrote:Prophecy seems to imply Satan used to be the music director in heaven. That seems like it could be a good deed, or at least neutral.
I'm afraid I don't understand what you are getting at. What would be the good deed he is doing now, leading worship music? ( :o Sorry, I didn't just say that, did I?!)
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lesterb
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by lesterb »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
lesterb wrote:When my mother was young, the Old Order Mennonite church in Ontario had its own unofficial "shaman," a man called Josh Rudy. He could heal sicknesses,and was a friend of my mother's family. I won't tell all the stories of his powers, but they were real, and they fear that he used them to kill at least one child. He healed several of my mother's sisters various times, but apparently was unable to stop their untimely death in the end.

The OOM and Amish call this ability charming, but it isn't that much different from the pagan witch doctors. I think that in most communities this has died out due to better understanding of the Bible.
Is this like Powwowing?

J.M.
Same thing, yes.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

I'm wondering why the question? If one answers that Satan can never do good, then does that means every healing is given by God? And every witch doctor, faith healer and shaman is doing God's work?

Atheists do things that are beneficial to other people, and that is good. It does not make them Godly.
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Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

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Wayne in Maine wrote:I'm wondering why the question? If one answers that Satan can never do good, then does that means every healing is given by God? And every witch doctor, faith healer and shaman is doing God's work?

Atheists do things that are beneficial to other people, and that is good. It does not make them Godly.
I was thinking this too- for one thing, what did Jesus say in Matthew 24:24:
Matthew 24:24King James Version (KJV)

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

and considering what is leading up to this point before the Lord returns:
2 Thessalonians 2:
. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I think that if it implies, that if it were possible the very elect shall be deceived- that this power, these 'lying' signs and wonders would have to be good things, wouldn't it? If they appeared to be evil, the elect wouldn't fall prey to deception-

I was wondering why the question too Neto, are you being challenged with trying to discern something whether from God or from the satanic realm? We will be challenged with this-
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Neto
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Neto »

Wayne in Maine wrote:I'm wondering why the question? If one answers that Satan can never do good, then does that means every healing is given by God? And every witch doctor, faith healer and shaman is doing God's work?

Atheists do things that are beneficial to other people, and that is good. It does not make them Godly.
The question was brought to my mind again (I referenced an earlier time when I had wrestled with it, before MennoDiscuss existed, etc.) because of a comment made by a member of our congregation. But as to the dilemma, I don't think I see one. If the Satan cannot ever do good, then when he or his servant 'heal', they are removing curses. This is how the Indians explained most of what the shaman did. I do not see how the devil could ever do anything good. He is an angel, a fallen one at that, and I do not see Scriptural support for saying that angels, even the holy ones, have any power aside from that given them by God. And the devil has cut himself off from that power. So he can only undo the things he has done. All true healings come from God, and only through natural processes (assisted by medicine) or through the miraculous work of the Holy Spirit. I know, the next question is why does he have the power to do evil, but not good. Good question, even if I did ask it myself. I'll have to do more thinking on this. (Can you tell I'm not totally settled on this? That's why I'm asking this community of faith. I don't have a hidden agenda. I want input.)
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