Satan - Any real good deeds?

General Christian Theology
Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Valerie »

lesterb wrote:
Valerie wrote:
lesterb wrote:
I suspect that Satan can do a certain amount of good if it supports evil. For instance, I suspect that the powers of "faith healers" like Kathryn Kuhlman or Bennie Hein could be Satanic in nature.
I remember my mom being a big fan of Kathryn Kuhlman who I remember always saying "I believe in miracles because I believe in God".

I was young, and then very young in the Lord, when she was in her healing ministry- I tend to get very afraid of falsely accusing someone who did have the gift of healing, of it being from the demonic realm, (because of what Jesus said) but I also do believe some faith healing is not of the Lord-

What in particular about Kathryn makes you (or anyone) suspect? (if I may ask) there must be some reason-
I just picked a couple names from my brain at random. However Kathryn was outside God's order of headship by being a public teacher and preacher.

I would view anyone who does miracles for show with suspicion. Modern faith healers manage to accumulate enormous economic holdings by doing "God's" work. It seems to be mostly for their own benefit and they get a lot more glory out of it than God does.
I wish I could go back in time & view her- I wasn't interested, when my mom was. I have never been one to go against Biblical teaching/scripture regarding women being over men in a church at all, whether pastors, or teachers-
I'm not sure if her ministry was a church, from my (bad) memory, I don't think she was a pastor/teacher- but the claim was an anointing, or gift- in this way- I am not sure how that particular spiritual gift would be different than the spiritual gift of prophesy, which was given to both genders as well.

I DID take a carload of girls to a Kathryn Kuhlman service when I was in high school because they asked me to, as one of the girls boyfriend had become paralyzed by an accident and they wanted to see her ministry- at the time, they were not Christians, and I was a young Christian, so I took them- it's been so long- I remember not feeling TOTALLY sure of it myself.
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lesterb
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by lesterb »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Kuhlman

Kuhlman was ordained by a Baptist congregation in Pennsylvania and she traveled extensively around the United States and in many other countries holding "healing crusades" between the 1940s and 1970s. She was one of the most well known healing ministers in the world. Kuhlman had a weekly TV program in the 1960s and 1970s called I Believe In Miracles that was aired nationally. She also had a 30-minute nationwide radio ministry of teaching from the Bible and, frequently, would feature excerpts from her healing services (both music and message).The foundation was established in 1954, and its Canadian branch in 1970. Towards her latter years she was supportive of the nascent Jesus movement, a spread of interest in Jesus among young teens formerly associated with drugs and the counter-culture.

By 1970 she moved to Los Angeles, conducting healing services for thousands of people each day as an heir to Aimee Semple McPherson.[3] She became well known for her "gift of healing" despite, as she often noted, having no theological training.[3] She was friends with Christian television pioneer Pat Robertson and made guest appearances at his Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) and on the network's flagship program "The 700 Club."
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Sudsy
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Sudsy »

“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ - Mathew 17:21-23

These people appeared to be doing God's work but Jesus said He never really had a relationship with them, never knew them. There is power in Jesus name and I don't doubt this power and the receiving person's faith can produce good/physical healings.
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Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Valerie »

lesterb wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Kuhlman

Kuhlman was ordained by a Baptist congregation in Pennsylvania and she traveled extensively around the United States and in many other countries holding "healing crusades" between the 1940s and 1970s. She was one of the most well known healing ministers in the world. Kuhlman had a weekly TV program in the 1960s and 1970s called I Believe In Miracles that was aired nationally. She also had a 30-minute nationwide radio ministry of teaching from the Bible and, frequently, would feature excerpts from her healing services (both music and message).The foundation was established in 1954, and its Canadian branch in 1970. Towards her latter years she was supportive of the nascent Jesus movement, a spread of interest in Jesus among young teens formerly associated with drugs and the counter-culture.

By 1970 she moved to Los Angeles, conducting healing services for thousands of people each day as an heir to Aimee Semple McPherson.[3] She became well known for her "gift of healing" despite, as she often noted, having no theological training.[3] She was friends with Christian television pioneer Pat Robertson and made guest appearances at his Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) and on the network's flagship program "The 700 Club."
So this would rightly fit into the discussion probably- if so many were healed through her healing ministry- was it of the Lord? Or demonic- but she gave the glory to God- (not herself). I'm surprised a Baptist congregation ordained her as 1) Baptists are cessasionists regarding spiritual gifts & 2) they do not have women as pastors (that I know of)- plus being an heir of Aimee Semple McPherson (this surprised me!), typically Foursquare and Baptists are opposed to each other in beliefs regarding gifts of the spirit (like healing, although Baptists believe in miracles, and healing, not seemingly in people with a special healing gift by the Holy Spirit)
We have one of these in our area too- Ernest Angsley-

There are so called 'faith healers' that I would say would fit the bill of what Neto is conveying- because of their method, it's downright evil looking- (i.e. the Holy Spirit telling Todd Bentley to kick a woman in the face with his 'biker' boot to heal her)
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Josh
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Josh »

Valerie wrote: We have one of these in our area too- Ernest Angsley-

There are so called 'faith healers' that I would say would fit the bill of what Neto is conveying- because of their method, it's downright evil looking- (i.e. the Holy Spirit telling Todd Bentley to kick a woman in the face with his 'biker' boot to heal her)
Right now Ernest Angley's 747SP is parked at the airport I frequently fly out of for work. A friend of mine once was the lead mechanic on that aircraft and he showed me some pictures of its interior, such as the massive king size bed (with an airplane seat belt right over the top of it) in the stateroom.

I am quite suspicious of any "faith healer" who has amassed so many contributions from his followers that his "ministry" manages to own its own double-decker luxury jet.
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Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Valerie wrote: We have one of these in our area too- Ernest Angsley-

There are so called 'faith healers' that I would say would fit the bill of what Neto is conveying- because of their method, it's downright evil looking- (i.e. the Holy Spirit telling Todd Bentley to kick a woman in the face with his 'biker' boot to heal her)
Right now Ernest Angley's 747SP is parked at the airport I frequently fly out of for work. A friend of mine once was the lead mechanic on that aircraft and he showed me some pictures of its interior, such as the massive king size bed (with an airplane seat belt right over the top of it) in the stateroom.

I am quite suspicious of any "faith healer" who has amassed so many contributions from his followers that his "ministry" manages to own its own double-decker luxury jet.
Guess what- the plane was donated to him by an Arab Sheikh so that he would keep coming back, since so many people were healed where he went- at least this is what was told to me-
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Neto
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Neto »

At this point, I'm not so much interested in evaluating any particular 'faith healers', but more interested in Biblical support for the idea that satan can heal real diseases, and if so, does he do so. Or, more generally (not just healing), is satan ever mentioned in Scripture as do anything good for anyone. (Sorry, being a Biblicist, I can't appeal to any evidence outside of the Scriptures, including my own observations & ideas, or anyone's 'testimony'. My own sense is that he cannot, or doesn't, even if he could. But I want Biblical evidence, even if it proves me wrong. I'm weird that way.)
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ken_sylvania
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by ken_sylvania »

Valerie wrote:
Josh wrote:
Valerie wrote: We have one of these in our area too- Ernest Angsley-

There are so called 'faith healers' that I would say would fit the bill of what Neto is conveying- because of their method, it's downright evil looking- (i.e. the Holy Spirit telling Todd Bentley to kick a woman in the face with his 'biker' boot to heal her)
Right now Ernest Angley's 747SP is parked at the airport I frequently fly out of for work. A friend of mine once was the lead mechanic on that aircraft and he showed me some pictures of its interior, such as the massive king size bed (with an airplane seat belt right over the top of it) in the stateroom.

I am quite suspicious of any "faith healer" who has amassed so many contributions from his followers that his "ministry" manages to own its own double-decker luxury jet.
Guess what- the plane was donated to him by an Arab Sheikh so that he would keep coming back, since so many people were healed where he went- at least this is what was told to me-
Somebody somewhere wasn't real careful to only state the truth (I have no idea whether it is your source or mine). The Ohio quoting Angley - "Angley said he has “been offered 10 times more than the millions we paid for [the plane]."
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RZehr
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by RZehr »

Is a worm or fly on a hook a good offering for a fish? That is how Satans good deeds are. Worms and bugs are good for fish, but the whole deal is bad for fish.

If Satan offers good, I don't believe Satan ever offers good separate from a hook. So taken as a whole, it is not good.
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Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Valerie »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Valerie wrote:
Josh wrote:
Right now Ernest Angley's 747SP is parked at the airport I frequently fly out of for work. A friend of mine once was the lead mechanic on that aircraft and he showed me some pictures of its interior, such as the massive king size bed (with an airplane seat belt right over the top of it) in the stateroom.

I am quite suspicious of any "faith healer" who has amassed so many contributions from his followers that his "ministry" manages to own its own double-decker luxury jet.
Guess what- the plane was donated to him by an Arab Sheikh so that he would keep coming back, since so many people were healed where he went- at least this is what was told to me-
Somebody somewhere wasn't real careful to only state the truth (I have no idea whether it is your source or mine). The Ohio quoting Angley - "Angley said he has “been offered 10 times more than the millions we paid for [the plane]."
So discouraging, on one thread we're encouraged not to be so suspicious, that it will affect us- in reality, it's getting harder and harder not to be.

(sorry Neto, just responding to this) back to what you are really trying to find out-
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