Satan - Any real good deeds?

General Christian Theology
Neto
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Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Neto »

Paul tells us in II Cor 11 that the Satan fakes it as an "Angel of Light". Can anyone point to any 'good deeds' that the devil has performed?
Some years ago I read a book that talked about the spiritual forces at work in the world, and it raised a question in my mind regarding something that seemed a contradiction in my mind at the time about Jesus' statement that 'Satan divided against Satan' just doesn't happen, because "a house divided against itself will fall". I wish I could recall at least the author's name, because I wrote him about things I'd seen & heard of in the mission context of working with animists, and we wrote back & forth for a while.
I finally concluded that when a shaman 'heals' a person of a curse-inflicted 'illness', the devil brings this about for his own purposes, none of which are good. I strongly suspect that the devil has never actually healed anyone of a 'sickness' of non-spiritual origin; he only oversees these 'healings' to bring all persons involved into further bondage, and is, in fact, incapable of healing anyone of an illness of actual physical origin. In the tribe where we lived, the shaman would (Traditionally. They had no shaman when we arrived there, either through untimely death, or because in some sense they had already rejected the complete practice of their traditional religion before our first meeting. They did practice some of this on a somewhat informal basis, that is, any concerned family member might attempt to perform the rituals, but there was no actual shaman, and they did it with an apparent thinking that it was 'real medicine'.) remove a demon-inflicted illness by removing the evil spirit from the body of the sick person. But this spirit was not cast out, it was in fact taken into the body of the shaman, giving him more power. (One of the men allowed me to record him as he described what it was like to live around a shaman. He said that you must always be careful not to offend him in any way, because if he becomes angry with you, he will put an evil spirit on you, and you will die, unless you can convince him, or another shaman, to remove it.) He thus had more power, power to do what? To curse by putting one of these spirits onto the person with whom he was angry. I thought that this created a sort of balance of power in the shaman, that if he cursed too many people, he would loose his power, because he was giving up one of the spirits he had inside him. So by doing 'good' sometimes, he was able to again do evil later.

Sorry for the long-winded introduction. So here's the question for the community here: Is there any Scripture that come to mind that might reference an actual 'act of kindness' or good done by the Satan? OR, secondly, any personal experience you have seen or heard of where the devil did something good, or provided something good.
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MaxPC
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by MaxPC »

Great topic, Neto. :D

Some random cogitations that occurred to me from your post:
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1 John 3:8 He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
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In Catholic World we view all of satan's works/actions as counterfeits of Jesus' works/actions. Like counterfeit money, satan and his works will fool some in order to steal ... in this case, souls. Everything satan does is to glorify himself and will ultimately be exposed as counterfeit. YMMV ;)
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Valerie »

I'm really interested in this topic, especially since we come from a denomination were there are many 'faith healers', miracles, etc- (even though we had left 3 plus years agao)

This story always intrigued me from Acts 16, because this demon possessed girl, was stating the way of salvation!:

14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,
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lesterb
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by lesterb »

When my mother was young, the Old Order Mennonite church in Ontario had its own unofficial "shaman," a man called Josh Rudy. He could heal sicknesses,and was a friend of my mother's family. I won't tell all the stories of his powers, but they were real, and they fear that he used them to kill at least one child. He healed several of my mother's sisters various times, but apparently was unable to stop their untimely death in the end.

The OOM and Amish call this ability charming, but it isn't that much different from the pagan witch doctors. I think that in most communities this has died out due to better understanding of the Bible.
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Neto
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Neto »

Thank you all for those responses.
Max,
If the devil just counterfeits the deeds of God (I agree), then, in your understanding of this, what caused the situation that he fake-fixed? In other words, if he heals someone, what caused them to be sick? Is the cause the same as if it was a natural illness?

Valerie,
This is an interesting fact you have mentioned, because not only did this girl do this in the presence of Paul (& Silas?), the demons could not refrain from announcing who Jesus, either. Both Jesus told them to be quite, and the situation vexed Paul as well. Why? How would we respond if a demon possessed person began loudly proclaiming that WE were bringing the true way of salvation? Something about this was not good, and of course Jesus knew it, but Paul knew it too.

Lester,
How do you suppose those people got sick in the first place? Were any of those people total strangers to this 'healer-shaman'? Did any of them have any history of involvement in this type of doings? If what I think I observed in the Indian village is true, then I would wonder if those sicknesses were not actually the deeds of perhaps other demons, or of those in relationship with the 'healer' himself. (In other words, they were not real illnesses, they did not have physical causes, but rather spiritual ones.
Of course Jesus also healed people for whom the illness was of spiritual causes - demon possession. But not all cases were, like the man born blind, for instance, I would say.)

What I'm trying to get at, is if satan is CAPABLE of doing good, and if he is, would he make use of it. I'm not sure that even the holy angels in general are capable of doing good IN THEIR OWN POWER, and satan cut himself off from the Source of Power through which the holy angels did, and do, their good work.
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lesterb
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by lesterb »

Neto wrote:Thank you all for those responses.
<snip>
Lester,
How do you suppose those people got sick in the first place? Were any of those people total strangers to this 'healer-shaman'? Did any of them have any history of involvement in this type of doings? If what I think I observed in the Indian village is true, then I would wonder if those sicknesses were not actually the deeds of perhaps other demons, or of those in relationship with the 'healer' himself. (In other words, they were not real illnesses, they did not have physical causes, but rather spiritual ones.
Of course Jesus also healed people for whom the illness was of spiritual causes - demon possession. But not all cases were, like the man born blind, for instance, I would say.)

What I'm trying to get at, is if Satan is CAPABLE of doing good, and if he is, would he make use of it. I'm not sure that even the holy angels in general are capable of doing good IN THEIR OWN POWER, and satan cut himself off from the Source of Power through which the holy angels did, and do, their good work.
These girls were too young to have spiritual causes, I think. But as I recall it, Rudy was really upset when he healed the one that was sick. He identified the cause as a spell. He had an enemy up the road, and he was sure that this person had cast the spell. He removed the spell, and shortly after, his enemies child became deathly sick and died. My grandparents were very afraid that he had done this in retaliation. He was a very vindictive person.

I suspect that Satan can do a certain amount of good if it supports evil. For instance, I suspect that the powers of "faith healers" like Kathryn Kuhlman or Bennie Hein could be Satanic in nature.

Here is a picture of the gravestone of my two aunts.
Image
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MaxPC
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by MaxPC »

Neto wrote:Thank you all for those responses.
Max,
If the devil just counterfeits the deeds of God (I agree), then, in your understanding of this, what caused the situation that he fake-fixed? In other words, if he heals someone, what caused them to be sick? Is the cause the same as if it was a natural illness?
From Catholic understanding: Sometimes people just get sick through happenstance just like anyone else but satan targets those whose souls are not strong in the faith: a crime of opportunity as it were.

Sometimes satan can cause the person to be ill via possession. (That's when Catholics call in an exorcist priest: yes, we still have them :D). The priest discerns whether or not the person has a possession and proceeds from there.

Satan can also cause a person to think he is ill. Like a dishonest mechanic who tells you a part needs replacement (when it will last another 50,000 miles), satan and his minions will play head games to confuse and conquer the person.

That's our understanding of it in Catholic World. :D
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Valerie »

Satan caused all of Job's sickness/disease- (allowed by God, it all seems to be allowed doesn't it? does satan and his demonic realm have complete free reign?)
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Valerie
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by Valerie »

lesterb wrote:
I suspect that Satan can do a certain amount of good if it supports evil. For instance, I suspect that the powers of "faith healers" like Kathryn Kuhlman or Bennie Hein could be Satanic in nature.
I remember my mom being a big fan of Kathryn Kuhlman who I remember always saying "I believe in miracles because I believe in God".

I was young, and then very young in the Lord, when she was in her healing ministry- I tend to get very afraid of falsely accusing someone who did have the gift of healing, of it being from the demonic realm, (because of what Jesus said) but I also do believe some faith healing is not of the Lord-

What in particular about Kathryn makes you (or anyone) suspect? (if I may ask) there must be some reason-
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lesterb
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Re: Satan - Any real good deeds?

Post by lesterb »

Valerie wrote:
lesterb wrote:
I suspect that Satan can do a certain amount of good if it supports evil. For instance, I suspect that the powers of "faith healers" like Kathryn Kuhlman or Bennie Hein could be Satanic in nature.
I remember my mom being a big fan of Kathryn Kuhlman who I remember always saying "I believe in miracles because I believe in God".

I was young, and then very young in the Lord, when she was in her healing ministry- I tend to get very afraid of falsely accusing someone who did have the gift of healing, of it being from the demonic realm, (because of what Jesus said) but I also do believe some faith healing is not of the Lord-

What in particular about Kathryn makes you (or anyone) suspect? (if I may ask) there must be some reason-
I just picked a couple names from my brain at random. However Kathryn was outside God's order of headship by being a public teacher and preacher.

I would view anyone who does miracles for show with suspicion. Modern faith healers manage to accumulate enormous economic holdings by doing "God's" work. It seems to be mostly for their own benefit and they get a lot more glory out of it than God does.
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