Hi Lex,
I appreciated your introduction and your testimony, it sounds like God has his hand on your path and I don't want to discourage you unnecessarily. I won't be arguing with you on this topic but I do find your views anti semitic. Please reconsider.
I generally agree with this.
MattY wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:10 am
This is disgraceful.
Why do conspiracy theorists always land on "the Jews"? ....
It's fine to oppose Zionism politically, if you can do so without dipping into conspiracy theories about how the "Jews rule the world." ...But anti-Zionist conspiracy theories are inevitably antisemitic.
Lex wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:04 am
Peace to you.
First of all, this is not anti-Semitism/racism. The Bible itself does not teach racism. When the Bible speaks negatively about Jews, it refers to Jews who are not Christians, not ethnic Jews in general.
John839 wrote:Look at this fat beardless man. Look at him misusing the Bible to fool his stupid American evangelical voters. Look at this man who is living the high life and is full of sex scandals. His mouth is like a garbage heap, only garbage comes out. But he is not ashamed. He thinks he is a great man, but deep down he knows that he is only a puppet of the Jws. When the Jw says: Quiet! Then he is quiet. When the Jw says: On your knees! Then he is on his knees. He is nothing but a slave.
He even had his daughter marry a Jw and convert to Judaism, a religion that denies Christ. And such a person calls himself a Christian? He is not a Christian. He is a Zionist who exploits Christianity to win the stupid evangelicals as voters. This tactic was certainly given to him by his Jwish senior advisor. Clever and deceitful. And the evangelicals are eating it up like dogs.
Does this kind of language sound like anti-Semitism to you?
Lex wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:04 am
Quote from an article written by Theodor Herzl (who was a Jew) in a German newspaper: "The wealthy Jews rule the world. In their hands lies the fate of governments and nations. They start wars between countries and, when they wish, governments make peace. When the wealthy Jews sing, the nations and their leaders dance along and meanwhile the Jews get richer."
Can you please point me to the original source for this quote?
This seems out of keeping with other things Hertzl wrote. For instance:
I believe that I understand Anti-Semitism, which is really a highly complex movement. I consider it from a Jewish standpoint, yet without fear or hatred. I believe that I can see what elements there are in it of vulgar sport, of common trade jealousy, of inherited prejudice, of religious intolerance, and also of pretended self-defense. I think the Jewish question is no more a social than a religious one, notwithstanding that it sometimes takes these and other forms. It is a national question, which can only be solved by making it a political world-question to be discussed and settled by the civilized nations of the world in council.
We are a people--one people.
We have honestly endeavored everywhere to merge ourselves in the social life of surrounding communities and to preserve the faith of our fathers. We are not permitted to do so. In vain are we loyal patriots, our loyalty in some places running to extremes; in vain do we make the same sacrifices of life and property as our fellow-citizens; in vain do we strive to increase the fame of our native land in science and art, or her wealth by trade and commerce. In countries where we have lived for centuries we are still cried down as strangers. and often by those whose ancestors were not yet domiciled in the land where Jews had already had experience of suffering. The majority may decide which are the strangers; for this, as indeed every point which arises in the relations between nations, is a question of might. I do not here surrender any portion of our prescriptive right, when I make this statement merely in my own name as an individual. In the world as it now is and for an indefinite period wilt probably remain, might precedes right. It is useless, therefore, for us to be loyal patriots, as were the Huguenots who were forced to emigrate. If we could only be left in peace. . . .
But I think we shall not be left in peace.
Oppression and persecution cannot exterminate us. No nation on earth has survived such struggles and sufferings as we have gone through. Jew-baiting has merely stripped off our weaklings; the strong among us were invariably true to their race when persecution broke out against them. This attitude was most clearly apparent in the period immediately following the emancipation of the Jews. Those Jews who were advanced intellectually and materially entirely lost the feeling of belonging to their race. Wherever our political well-being has lasted for any length of time, we have assimilated with our surroundings. I think this is not discreditable. Hence, the statesman who would wish to see a Jewish strain in his nation would have to provide for the duration of our political well-being; and even a Bismarck could not do that.
That seems so directly opposite from the quote that you provided that I doubt your quote is genuine. Can you point me to the original article you say it came from?
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:07 pm
That seems so directly opposite from the quote that you provided that I doubt your quote is genuine. Can you point me to the original article you say it came from?
This quote has spread like a wildfire on the internet, among antisemites and uncritical haters of Israel, but it is fake. It is a falsification.
Here are the two pages it cites. Which do not contain the text you cite. These are in keeping with what I posted earlier from his writing - he had given up on the notion of living in peace with non-Jews and wanted a safe homeland for Jews. And he was willing to work with Anti-Semites to make that happen.
Last edited by Bootstrap on Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:07 pm
That seems so directly opposite from the quote that you provided that I doubt your quote is genuine. Can you point me to the original article you say it came from?
Lex wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:49 pm
Which quote exactly is fake?
Your original Hertzl quote, I believe. Others have looked at it and found it fake. I cannot find it in the source you pointed me to. The owners of that source have noticed people were citing it and kindly provided links that disbunk your claims.
You can prove me wrong by giving me page images from a good source, preferably in German, but a translation will do. Something I can verify as real. For instance, you claim it came from a newspaper article in German. Which newspaper, what date? I can easily find that day's paper. Or did it come from a book? Which one, what date? I can look that up as well.
But you do know that people make up and promote fake quotes in order to foster hatred against Jews and others, don't you? In that kind of environment, what do you think true followers of Jesus would do?
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
In particular, Christianity’s focus is not on finding some ethnic group to blame for all kinds of problems. The NT very much points us in the opposite direction.
Lex wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:49 pm
Which quote exactly is fake?
Your original Hertzl quote, I believe. Others have looked at it and found it fake. I cannot find it in the source you pointed me to. The owners of that source have noticed people were citing it and kindly provided links that disbunk your claims.
You can prove me wrong by giving me page images from a good source, preferably in German, but a translation will do. Something I can verify as real. For instance, you claim it came from a newspaper article in German. Which newspaper, what date? I can easily find that day's paper. Or did it come from a book? Which one, what date? I can look that up as well.
But you do know that people make up and promote fake quotes in order to foster hatred against Jews and others, don't you? In that kind of environment, what do you think true followers of Jesus would do?
My original Herzl quote was this:
"The wealthy Jews rule the world; the fate of the governments lies in their hands. They start wars between countries, and when they wish, the governments make peace. When the wealthy Jews sing, the nations and their leaders dance along, and meanwhile the Jews get richer!” (Published by Herzl in a German newspaper)
Lex wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:58 pm
My original Herzl quote was this:
"The wealthy Jews rule the world; the fate of the governments lies in their hands. They start wars between countries, and when they wish, the governments make peace. When the wealthy Jews sing, the nations and their leaders dance along, and meanwhile the Jews get richer!” (Published by Herzl in a German newspaper)
tell me please who said this is fake.
But the page you pointed me to was about a different fake quote. I was simply citing its contents. Perhaps you didn't read it to verify that it contained your quote?
So now we know that anti-Semites are faking quotes by Herzl. And we know that the page you gave me to verify your quote is about a different quote entirely.
Now back to the above quote, the one you provided initially. "Published by Herzl in a German newspaper" - Which newspaper, and what date, please? I can find it using that information if it exists. But based on other things he has written, I'm pretty sure Hertzl didn't say that. And "in a German newspaper" is a suspiciously vague citation, why doesn't it name the newspaper? May I ask what source you got this from?
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Lex wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:58 pm
My original Herzl quote was this:
"The wealthy Jews rule the world; the fate of the governments lies in their hands. They start wars between countries, and when they wish, the governments make peace. When the wealthy Jews sing, the nations and their leaders dance along, and meanwhile the Jews get richer!” (Published by Herzl in a German newspaper)
tell me please who said this is fake.
But the page you pointed me to was about a different fake quote. I was simply citing its contents. Perhaps you didn't read it to verify that it contained your quote?
So now we know that anti-Semites are faking quotes by Herzl. And we know that the page you gave me to verify your quote is about a different quote.
So back to the above quote. Which newspaper, and what date, please? I can find it using that information if it exists. But based on other things he has written, I'm pretty sure Hertzl didn't say that. May I ask what source you got this from?
