Catholicism vs. Evangelicalism in Brazil

[MaxPC]

What is a ordinary?

The Ordinary is a Bishop, Monsignor or Primate who has jurisdiction over a canonically defined group such as a diocese; a religious order or a church-wide ministry.
Now to make it truly confusing
Ordinary is the generalised term for this supervisory role. Bishop, Monsignor, or Primate is the specific title.

As with anything Catholic, terms tend to be very specific with categories, subcategories, etc. - probably more than you want to know. Specificity was drilled into us as youth.
Lunch bell.

[MaxPC]

Look. Anyone who has worked overseas knows that different mission groups cooperate on a lot of levels, especially on development projects. When my parents worked in Brazil with MCC a couple decades ago they worked directly with a couple of nuns who had started a rural health clinic. Different groups often collaborate on these sorts of things. Some more so than others. People who are working in rural development tend to collaborate. It only makes sense.
True.

But what they do not collaborate on is theology. The Catholic church does not rely on evangelical Pentecostal preachers to conduct its religious teachings, perform its baptisms, and vice versa. Such a thing would be directly contrary to Catholic teaching. In the very limited circumstances when the Catholic church relies on lay people to perform rites like baptism they do so under the auspices of the Catholic church. In other words, it is trained Catholic lay ministers who are teaching Catholic doctrine and performing rites according to Catholic standards. The Catholic church doesn't outsource its ministry to anyone.
I never stated that theology is delegated to non-Catholics. I noted that socialisation with nonCatholic groups does occur: two very different concepts.

Also I suspect people who haven't lived in Latin America (especially rural Latin America) don't understand how raw the conflict is between evangelicals and Catholics. Years ago when I was in Guatemala I would see evangelical ministers set up shop on the very steps of the Catholic church and preach with loudspeakers all day long during Wednesday market days. And sometimes also on religious holidays. It wasn't random sermons. It was often anti-Catholic diatribes. They weren't trying to "save souls". They were overtly trying to convert Catholics. And that conflict has only grown over time.

And this isn't North American missionaries doing this sort of thing. It's all local evangelical/Pentecostal preachers doing it on their own initiative. These places are their own cultures and less under the sway of various North American mission groups than some might think.

I'm no particular fan of the Catholic church. They have made a mess of things around the world and I don't think it is a coincidence that Catholic societies tend to be less prosperous and free compared to Protestant societies. But this sort of thing is also driving an enormous wedge through Latin American society and splitting families, communities, and society right down the middle. Sort of like how social media driven politics is fracturing the US down the middle too. And I don't necessarily think that is a good thing either.

I do not agree that it is occurring in all of Latin America. I do agree there are sectors of animus but there are also sectors (including rural sectors) in which cooperation and good will is lived out.

I agree there does seem to be a lot of anger all over the world and social media may be a factor.

[ohio jones]

Reposting the same thing doesn’t change facts.

Several duplicate posts have been deleted.

[ohio jones]

I sense you are hostile in this discussion. Nevertheless, the CCC is available in different formats including condensed versions that do not include some of the footnotes at the Vatican website. As noted, the USCCB is easier on the eyes but it does not possess the links to the biblio footnotes that are present at the Vatican website. Scholars prefer those links to see the background of the thesis.

From what I can tell, the footnotes in the USCCB and Vatican versions appear to be identical in the passage under discussion.

[Josh]

What is a ordinary?

The Ordinary is a Bishop, Monsignor or Primate who has jurisdiction over a canonically defined group such as a diocese; a religious order or a church-wide ministry.
Now to make it truly confusing
Ordinary is the generalised term for this supervisory role. Bishop, Monsignor, or Primate is the specific title.

As with anything Catholic, terms tend to be very specific with categories, subcategories, etc. - probably more than you want to know. Specificity was drilled into us as youth.
Lunch bell.

Having spent time around laity, priests, monks, and even a bishop… I never hear them say “ordinary”. They just say bishop so and so, etc

[Josh]

I agree there does seem to be a lot of anger all over the world and social media may be a factor.[/color][/b]

which is irrelevant to Guatemalan parishes getting a priest to come by once a year.

[MaxPC]

I sense you are hostile in this discussion. Nevertheless, the CCC is available in different formats including condensed versions that do not include some of the footnotes at the Vatican website. As noted, the USCCB is easier on the eyes but it does not possess the links to the biblio footnotes that are present at the Vatican website. Scholars prefer those links to see the background of the thesis.

From what I can tell, the footnotes in the USCCB and Vatican versions appear to be identical in the passage under discussion.

In the Vatican site they are actively linked to the reference docs within the website. It is a feature that helps scholars to search the reference point without leaving the site. At least they were linked a months ago.

[Soloist]

In the Vatican site they are actively linked to the reference docs within the website. It is a feature that helps scholars to search the reference point without leaving the site. At least they were linked a months ago.

Oddly enough, I trust someone who went there, found the relevant information and posted a link far more then I trust a self claimed Catholic who hasn’t bothered check in months his sources.
Max, source your statements if you want anyone to believe you speak truth about Catholics especially when it disagrees with ordained Catholics.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I agree there does seem to be a lot of anger all over the world and social media may be a factor.[/color][/b]

which is irrelevant to Guatemalan parishes getting a priest to come by once a year.

I would be a bit put off if my church cared so little that the ministry was available only once a year.

[Judas Maccabeus]

What is a ordinary?

The Ordinary is a Bishop, Monsignor or Primate who has jurisdiction over a canonically defined group such as a diocese; a religious order or a church-wide ministry.
Now to make it truly confusing
Ordinary is the generalised term for this supervisory role. Bishop, Monsignor, or Primate is the specific title.

As with anything Catholic, terms tend to be very specific with categories, subcategories, etc. - probably more than you want to know. Specificity was drilled into us as youth.
Lunch bell.

Having spent time around laity, priests, monks, and even a bishop… I never hear them say “ordinary”. They just say bishop so and so, etc

It is a bit of a seldom used term. What Max says here is correct. Now let us see if he admits that he has no authorization to be teaching on behalf of the Catholic Church, and his "ordinary" if it be a bishop, abbot or someone else does not even know he exists. If he cannot identify the leader who grants that authority, than all can feel free to ignore him.