Greek/Hebrew question

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Josh
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Greek/Hebrew question

Post by Josh »

This isn't the first time I've run into this, but it's a particularly frustrating thing to argue with someone about it, and now I've run into it with someone I have real life contact with. I'm asking those who are skilled in New Testament interpretation to help me out.

Basically, Matthew 5:28 says:

"5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 38 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

This argument boils down to that the Bible never actually says looking at pornography is a sin, because it's OK to look at unmarried women to desire them because the sin described is "adultery" and as a single man you can't commit adultery with an unmarried woman.
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silentreader
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Re: Greek/Hebrew question

Post by silentreader »

Josh wrote:This isn't the first time I've run into this, but it's a particularly frustrating thing to argue with someone about it, and now I've run into it with someone I have real life contact with. I'm asking those who are skilled in New Testament interpretation to help me out.

Basically, Matthew 5:28 says:

"5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 38 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

This argument boils down to that the Bible never actually says looking at pornography is a sin, because it's OK to look at unmarried women to desire them because the sin described is "adultery" and as a single man you can't commit adultery with an unmarried woman.
Throughout the NT where adultery is mentioned it is usually in conjunction with other sexual sins unless adultery is being specifically addressed. In this particular case the focus is somewhat on the sanctity of marriage, and even though sexual sins other than adultery are not mentioned it does not mean that they are approved.
Also of interest, in v28, even though the logical context suggests marital unfaithfulness, neither the "whoever" or the "woman" are specified as being in the married state.
The 'quality of logic' used in the 'argument' you describe would certainly allow for a rebuttal using the points I mentioned.

I'm pretty sure that no appeal to the original languages would be useful or necessary in this case.
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Sudsy
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Re: Greek/Hebrew question

Post by Sudsy »

Josh wrote:This isn't the first time I've run into this, but it's a particularly frustrating thing to argue with someone about it, and now I've run into it with someone I have real life contact with. I'm asking those who are skilled in New Testament interpretation to help me out.

Basically, Matthew 5:28 says:

"5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 38 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

This argument boils down to that the Bible never actually says looking at pornography is a sin, because it's OK to look at unmarried women to desire them because the sin described is "adultery" and as a single man you can't commit adultery with an unmarried woman.
Wow, never heard that argument before. Off the top of my head, my response would be to read Ephesians 5 and see if this makes room for viewing porn.

"Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.'

I would suggest that those involved in creating porn for movies and magazines are primarily not married people involved in sexual acts and therefore are into fornication. And as the last verse given says, it is shameful even to mention those things that should remain in secret (which I believe includes sexual activity between two adults). If porn is referred to, it is to be reproved as 'unfruitful works of darkness'.

Just because Mathew 5:28 is about adultery in context, doesn't mean scripture does not address viewing porn.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Greek/Hebrew question

Post by Bootstrap »

Hmmmm, I'd like to separate two questions. I think looking at porn is wrong, I think it is inconsistent with the overall teaching on Christian purity and holiness, and I think most people know that in their heart of hearts. Sudsy's answer is a good one.
Josh wrote:Basically, Matthew 5:28 says:

"5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 38 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

This argument boils down to that the Bible never actually says looking at pornography is a sin, because it's OK to look at unmarried women to desire them because the sin described is "adultery" and as a single man you can't commit adultery with an unmarried woman.
Well, I think the issue is simply that this is not the best proof text for the question. And here, I think the Greek is helpful.

This particular verse is indeed about adultery. The word "desire" (ἐπιθυμῆσαι) is a quite general word for desire, not just for sexual desire. But it is also the word used for "covet" in the Septuagint ("thou shalt not covet they neighbor's wife", etc.) And I think you could legitimately translate this "whoever looks at a woman to covet her".

I think desire and coveting are both about saying "I want that". And it is no sin for an unmarried man to find an unmarried female he wants enough to marry. It is also no sin to notice that someone is attractive. And it is no sin for a married man to desire his own wife - it's rather sad if he does not.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Greek/Hebrew question

Post by JimFoxvog »

I think the principle Jesus is communicating is expandable. If both the person lusting and the one lusted after are single, then it is fornication in one's heart, not adultery. I've heard of married couples using sexually explicit material to get them "in the mood." If they both agree, and they both are only sexually interested in each other, that may be acceptable.
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Sudsy
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Re: Greek/Hebrew question

Post by Sudsy »

JimFoxvog wrote:I think the principle Jesus is communicating is expandable. If both the person lusting and the one lusted after are single, then it is fornication in one's heart, not adultery. I've heard of married couples using sexually explicit material to get them "in the mood." If they both agree, and they both are only sexually interested in each other, that may be acceptable.
Here are some thoughts on porn from a pastor's perspective who deals with this issue -

http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/dr-james ... wrong.html

I have a Christian friend, now in street ministry, who got rid of his computer to be able to control the addictive nature of watching porn. It only takes the click of a mouse to get 'free porn'. Like those who took their first drink and got addicted or first smoke on weed. Some areas are really playing with fire.

"Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it." - Proverbs 4:23
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