Can Anabaptism be Catholic and vice versa?

[Josh]

I think they actually are mutually incompatible. Anabaptism and Catholicism are things that at their very core are the opposite of each other.

It's impossible to believe in infant baptism and not believe in infant baptism at the same time.

[Verity]

It is possible to practice something and not believe it.

[Josh]

It is possible to practice something and not believe it.

That’s true. However, Anabaptism and Catholicism both demand belief from their adherents. One who practices but does not believe in the doctrines is not genuinely called an Anabaptist or a Catholic.

Some use “Catholic” or “Mennonite”, “Amish”, etc. as ethnic labels. “There was conflict in Belfast concerning a Catholic neighbourhood.” “We enjoy Amish apple butter.” These concern neither doctrine nor belief; one could certainly be of mixed Catholic and Anabaptist ancestry, much as a horse and donkey can miscegenate and produce a mule; this does not change that horses are not donkeys and donkeys are not mules.

[Verity]

It is possible to practice something and not believe it.

That’s true. However, Anabaptism and Catholicism both demand belief from their adherents. One who practices but does not believe in the doctrines is not genuinely called an Anabaptist or a Catholic.

Some use “Catholic” or “Mennonite”, “Amish”, etc. as ethnic labels. “There was conflict in Belfast concerning a Catholic neighbourhood.” “We enjoy Amish apple butter.” These concern neither doctrine nor belief; one could certainly be of mixed Catholic and Anabaptist ancestry, much as a horse and donkey can miscegenate and produce a mule; this does not change that horses are not donkeys and donkeys are not mules.

Okay, Josh, I get that deep down they would not be true "Catholic" or "Anabaptist" in their heart, but are you saying that anyone who practices without belief is not a genuine Anabaptist or Catholic and should not identify as such?

[Soloist]

Why in the world if I believe in adult baptism would I ever get my babies baptized? And likewise if I believed in infant baptism why would I ever wait?

The only reason one would get their babies baptized is to keep peace so either family doesn’t hate them or they don’t get killed. If you don’t believe in the idol does that make it okay to offer sacrifices? Clearly not. Someone who believes in infant baptism is placing their child in believed danger by not baptizing them until confession of faith.

I don’t see that belief in one would allow the other. Now someone certainly could be neutral and fit into either camp or even go back and forth but if you believe in one, you would only compromise to hurt of your belief.

[Josh]

It is possible to practice something and not believe it.

That’s true. However, Anabaptism and Catholicism both demand belief from their adherents. One who practices but does not believe in the doctrines is not genuinely called an Anabaptist or a Catholic.

Some use “Catholic” or “Mennonite”, “Amish”, etc. as ethnic labels. “There was conflict in Belfast concerning a Catholic neighbourhood.” “We enjoy Amish apple butter.” These concern neither doctrine nor belief; one could certainly be of mixed Catholic and Anabaptist ancestry, much as a horse and donkey can miscegenate and produce a mule; this does not change that horses are not donkeys and donkeys are not mules.

Okay, Josh, I get that deep down they would not be true "Catholic" or "Anabaptist" in their heart, but are you saying that anyone who practices without belief is not a genuine Anabaptist or Catholic and should not identify as such?

People may identify as whatever they want. Such a person may indeed have an ethnic affiliation too.

However, the general definition of Catholic and Anabaptist involves mental assent and belief. Someone who lacks this is accurately categorised as apostate, or perhaps agnostic. Such behaviour is characteristic of people with ethnic ties but who otherwise are not adherents of a faith.

Belief is a core central component of Christianity.

[Neto]

It is possible to practice something and not believe it.

That’s true. However, Anabaptism and Catholicism both demand belief from their adherents. One who practices but does not believe in the doctrines is not genuinely called an Anabaptist or a Catholic.

Some use “Catholic” or “Mennonite”, “Amish”, etc. as ethnic labels. “There was conflict in Belfast concerning a Catholic neighbourhood.” “We enjoy Amish apple butter.” These concern neither doctrine nor belief; one could certainly be of mixed Catholic and Anabaptist ancestry, much as a horse and donkey can miscegenate and produce a mule; this does not change that horses are not donkeys and donkeys are not mules.

Very true, and it really bugs me to have people tell me that they are "Mennonite but not Christian". On the FB "Mennonite History & Genealogy" group some people with Plautdietsch ancestry will say that they are Russian Orthodox Mennonites, when they didn't know they had any 'Mennonite" background at all, and often had never even heard of it, before they got their DNA test results back. There's another kind of confusion on that group as well, people of Swiss Brethren and sometimes even Amish heritage who come on there, and start asking questions about some person in their own ancestry, then have to be directed to a different FB group that is for that Swiss-German heritage. The name that was chosen created this confusion, so it's not the fault of these other people who come with their own questions. I have suggested several times that it should include the word 'Plautdietsch', which is the ethnic title.
So these religious terms are misused. I do think it's OK to use designations like "Polish Catholic" or "Irish Catholic" (two areas of Omaha, Nebraska that were, or maybe still are, side by side in the old part of town). (My sister-in-law is Polish, she grew up in that section of town, and after they got married she & my brother lived there in that area for several years. I remember visiting them there one St. Patrick's Day, and we drove over into the Irish section. It was like crossing an international border.)

"Catholic", is probably not used this way nearly as much as as "Mennonite", because it is much more ethnically diverse.

[Verity]

"Belief is a core central component of Christianity."

Agreed.

I would suggest that there are many who identify as Catholic or Anabaptist who do not believe all of the tenets. We have friends who baptized their infants to honor their parents, but taught their children it was merely an expression of respect, nothing spiritual [not saying we agreed with that position]. I also know many Mennonites who outwardly conform to what is expected of them, but do not believe in it personally.

Cultural pressures are real and there are many who will conform out of respect to others, but not out of personal belief.

[Bootstrap]

Sure but I don’t go around saying “I’m a plain Mennonite” or that “I belong to plain Mennonites”. Likewise, a Catholic would say “I’m Catholic and part of the Benedictine order” they wouldn’t say “I’m a plain Catholic” they could say “I chose to dress plainly”

On Catholic forums, I have seen people ask the same questions that people ask here. Why would a Catholic dress like a Mennonite?

This is simple, plain clothing worn by some Catholic monks who choose a simple, plain life:



There are also "third order" Catholics who are not celibate, but also live a simple, plain life of service:

[RZehr]

"Belief is a core central component of Christianity."

Agreed.

I would suggest that there are many who identify as Catholic or Anabaptist who do not believe all of the tenets. We have friends who baptized their infants to honor their parents, but taught their children it was merely an expression of respect, nothing spiritual [not saying we agreed with that position]. I also know many Mennonites who outwardly conform to what is expected of them, but do not believe in it personally.

Cultural pressures are real and there are many who will conform out of respect to others, but not out of personal belief.

But on the subject of baptism, they are mutually exclusive.
Anabaptist has to believe not just that a believer’s baptism is important, but also that an infant baptism is not valid. You can’t just hold that believers baptism is necessary, and infant baptism is fine too.

Catholics are the opposite, they believe that infant baptism is good, and re-baptism is bad. They aren’t neutral or open either.

Same with the authority of the Pope.

If Anabaptism and Catholicism are compatible, it’s too bad that no one figured it out in 1527. Just because Catholics aren’t killing us over these issues, doesn’t mean that they have become compatible in 2024.

This is not something like modesty, where we each may have cultural norm, but we leave room for other styles of clothing to be modest as well. And baptism isn't the same as someone not agreeing with a church standard, but outwardly conforming by it anyway.