Do Plain Catholics exist?

[Judas Maccabeus]

I don't get it. If some group of people want to call themselves 'Plain Catholic' what is that to anyone else ? They can use that term and make the 'plain' represent whatever they chose.

There seems to be some 'gotcha' going on here.

What if I were to claim there were a group "liberal Amish" who support a whole list of so-called liberal policies like LGBT inclusion, abortion rights, liberal politicians, public schools. And then I made up a web site with photoshopped photos showing Amish with rainbow flags, or Amish kids in public schools, or whatever.

Would that make it true? And would you be here saying 'if some group of people wants to call themselves "liberal Amish" what is that to anyone else?" Or would you be saying. RIIIIGHT. "Looks like someone made this all up. Show us these actual Amish with the rainbow flags and so forth"

We have enough problems of our own, weirdos within the Mennonite camp, and within the "Plain Anabaptists", for that matter. We don't need to try to police other groups of people. Pink Mennos?! Help the poor and the needy! We cannot even get our own house in order. It's not like anyone copyrighted the word "Plain".

But alas, I do not care if there are, or could be plain catholics. What we have here is someone claiming to be part of a movement that simply does not exist. If a group wishes to call themselves that, fine. If some catholics want to dress or practice as such, fine. However, there is no such group, Does he think us gullible enough to buy the largely concocted blog? After he had a couple of days to cook up one?

If there is so much effort to fake something, the question is why. The only answer that makes sense to me, is to penetrate the culture to proselytize. I did much the same thing, as did Hudson Taylor.

Until proved otherwise, I stand by my conclusion.

[Soloist]

OK so I have no way of knowing if this person is actually related to Max or not. But I am highly skeptical, and he could easily prove the person is related by simply posting a picture of the woman aside from this one.

Here is his original photo that he cropped.

A1656B2B-1EF0-44FB-82E3-DDF7AAAF0D11.jpeg (26.14 KiB) Viewed 185 times

And here is the website.

https://inspiring-ireland.ie/object-detail/9306sz33n
This woman worked at a hotel in Dublin Ireland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_ ... le,_Dublin
The actual hotel burned down in May 1916 during the Easter Rising https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising

This woman very likely was Catholic, and if you look in the contemporary time this picture was taken they look relatively in line with how others dressed.

None of this is saying that there are not Catholics that dress plain, but they don’t make websites with stolen pictures and fabricated information. I admire Catholics who attempt to live simply and follow the teachings of Jesus even though I disagree with their view on some doctrines.

[Judas Maccabeus]

A8B35E63-870F-4125-B33B-3FBC7F7CD166.jpeg

OK so I have no way of knowing if this person is actually related to Max or not. But I am highly skeptical, and he could easily prove the person is related by simply posting a picture of the woman aside from this one.

Here is his original photo that he cropped.

A1656B2B-1EF0-44FB-82E3-DDF7AAAF0D11.jpeg

And here is the website.

https://inspiring-ireland.ie/object-detail/9306sz33n
This woman worked at a hotel in Dublin Ireland
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_ ... le,_Dublin
The actual hotel burned down in May 1916 during the Easter Rising https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Rising

This woman very likely was Catholic, and if you look in the contemporary time this picture was taken they look relatively in line with how others dressed.

None of this is saying that there are not Catholics that dress plain, but they don’t make websites with stolen pictures and fabricated information. I admire Catholics who attempt to live simply and follow the teachings of Jesus even though I disagree with their view on some doctrines.

What you are seeing is early 20th century day dress. I have, from time to time contended that a woman dressed such could walk into my non-cape dress requiring church and no one would take notice.

[Valerie]

I have seen no indication that Max is here to proselytize Anabaptists to Catholicism. Fear not.
Instead I witness a devout Christian who adheres to plain dress and agrees with some but not all Anabaptist theology but Anabaptists don't agree with each other until they're all of a sudden against someone. He has been very gracious & forthright on their beliefs but he obviously admires Anabaptists and perhaps is trying to honor Jesus' priestly prayer of unity in the Church which Jesus obviously felt much more important and necessary than scrutinizing a brother in the Lord.

This whole thing was overreacted to on the old Mennodiscuss. Why not bury the hatchet. He's not out to convert you so please calm down.

[Josh]

I have seen no indication that Max is here to proselytize Anabaptists to Catholicism. Fear not.
Instead I witness a devout Christian who adheres to plain dress

There is no actual evidence of this and plenty to the contrary. He’s used pictures of German Baptists or a random Irish woman from a picture used to file a lawsuit concerning insurance as evidence of his “plain dress” or that “Plain Catholics” dress a certain way.

Unless he’s going to tell us they have convictions against photography or against sharing photos online (which seems odd, when their websites have pictures of Plain Anabaptists), it is reasonable to be suspicious.

and agrees with some but not all Anabaptist theology

I haven’t seen him agree with much Anabaptist theology at all, particularly the core areas of baptism and nonresistance. He just pushes whatever he thinks Catholic doctrine is. In particular Catholic doctrine is that going to war for a just war is OK. Anabaptists are markedly different on that front.

but Anabaptists don't agree with each other until they're all of a sudden against someone. He has been very gracious & forthright on their beliefs but he obviously admires Anabaptists and perhaps is trying to honor Jesus' priestly prayer of unity in the Church which Jesus obviously felt much more important and necessary than scrutinizing a brother in the Lord.

This whole thing was overreacted to on the old Mennodiscuss. Why not bury the hatchet. He's not out to convert you so please calm down.

MaxPC started a thread about how it’s important to speak truth in online posts.

A number of us agree. And are asking him about truth in his online posts, because the Plain Catholic claims he makes seem, to some of us, to be untruthful.

[Sudsy]

I have seen no indication that Max is here to proselytize Anabaptists to Catholicism. Fear not.
Instead I witness a devout Christian who adheres to plain dress

There is no actual evidence of this and plenty to the contrary. He’s used pictures of German Baptists or a random Irish woman from a picture used to file a lawsuit concerning insurance as evidence of his “plain dress” or that “Plain Catholics” dress a certain way.

Unless he’s going to tell us they have convictions against photography or against sharing photos online (which seems odd, when their websites have pictures of Plain Anabaptists), it is reasonable to be suspicious.

and agrees with some but not all Anabaptist theology

I haven’t seen him agree with much Anabaptist theology at all, particularly the core areas of baptism and nonresistance. He just pushes whatever he thinks Catholic doctrine is. In particular Catholic doctrine is that going to war for a just war is OK. Anabaptists are markedly different on that front.

but Anabaptists don't agree with each other until they're all of a sudden against someone. He has been very gracious & forthright on their beliefs but he obviously admires Anabaptists and perhaps is trying to honor Jesus' priestly prayer of unity in the Church which Jesus obviously felt much more important and necessary than scrutinizing a brother in the Lord.

This whole thing was overreacted to on the old Mennodiscuss. Why not bury the hatchet. He's not out to convert you so please calm down.

MaxPC started a thread about how it’s important to speak truth in online posts.

A number of us agree. And are asking him about truth in his online posts, because the Plain Catholic claims he makes seem, to some of us, to be untruthful.

I was the one who started the thread on speaking the truth in online posts not MaxPC- viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6510

My intent was not to single out people on the forum as to where they might be not telling the truth and where they are telling the truth and looking back over that thread I think it was kept from getting personal. I don't doubt the behaviour of some of us is being questioned by what is discussed but I also believe we don't need to get personal about things and should try hard not to.

I think a number of us would agree that we can question Christian behaviour and not get personal with it but rather state a kind of behaviour and give our view on how to improve on it. There is a feature here called PM - Personal Messaging and imo, if one has personal questions they should try to use this feature.

I disagree with those who pursue directly pointing fingers at individuals and if I do this, please PM me. This, I believe, should be a place for expressing our beliefs and fine tuning or changing them based on the scriptural guidance of others. If I'm going off track with these comments, I encourage the forum monitors to PM me and give me the right picture on things.

[Josh]

I was the one who started the thread on speaking the truth in online posts not MaxPC- viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6510

Oops, my mistake.

My intent was not to single out people on the forum as to where they might be not telling the truth and where they are telling the truth and looking back over that thread I think it was kept from getting personal. I don't doubt the behaviour of some of us is being questioned by what is discussed but I also believe we don't need to get personal about things and should try hard not to.

I think a number of us would agree that we can question Christian behaviour and not get personal with it but rather state a kind of behaviour and give our view on how to improve on it. There is a feature here called PM - Personal Messaging and imo, if one has personal questions they should try to use this feature.

This isn’t a personal question. This is about if “Plain Catholics” as MaxPC claims they exist on this forum, actually exist.

I disagree with those who pursue directly pointing fingers at individuals and if I do this, please PM me. This, I believe, should be a place for expressing our beliefs and fine tuning or changing them based on the scriptural guidance of others. If I'm going off track with these comments, I encourage the forum monitors to PM me and give me the right picture on things.

Well, nobody is pointing fingers are accusing. We are simply asking for more information about Plain Catholics; most specifically we are asking why:

- The main source MaxPC has cited is some blogs / websites about Plain Catholics.
- We are asking why those websites had pictures of German Baptists, which are plain Anabaptists, not Catholics.
- We are asking why the profile picture on the remaining blog is of an Irish woman who is well-attested in the historical record but was not a “Plain Catholic”; if there are any records of her being such. We would welcome them.
- We are asking if any of these people actually exist and would be willing to meet a fellow Catholic, a priest, or a bishop who is interested to do so. The answer seems to be a resounding “no”.
- Getting a “no” makes it reasonable to question if they exist at all. So far no evidence has been provided except MaxPC’s claims they exist, and a blog.

If MaxPC doesn’t want questioned about this, he may chose to stop promoting “Plain Catholics” on this forum, and stop claiming they exist on this forum, including using “we” to refer to practices he claims are Plain Catholic practices.

[Martin]

https://lancasteronline.com/news/local/ ... d0682.html

I became more skeptical after listening to this Hola-hoaxer at Allensville Mennonite in Belleville. I won't forget how upset I was afterwards but my dad told me that it was a good experience for us and helps us realize our gullibility. I remember singing "Can you count the stars of evening" for him cuz that was his favorite song. Sort of rhymes with the "plain Catholic" here.

[Sudsy]

I was the one who started the thread on speaking the truth in online posts not MaxPC- viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6510

Oops, my mistake.

My intent was not to single out people on the forum as to where they might be not telling the truth and where they are telling the truth and looking back over that thread I think it was kept from getting personal. I don't doubt the behaviour of some of us is being questioned by what is discussed but I also believe we don't need to get personal about things and should try hard not to.

I think a number of us would agree that we can question Christian behaviour and not get personal with it but rather state a kind of behaviour and give our view on how to improve on it. There is a feature here called PM - Personal Messaging and imo, if one has personal questions they should try to use this feature.

This isn’t a personal question. This is about if “Plain Catholics” as MaxPC claims they exist on this forum, actually exist.

I disagree with those who pursue directly pointing fingers at individuals and if I do this, please PM me. This, I believe, should be a place for expressing our beliefs and fine tuning or changing them based on the scriptural guidance of others. If I'm going off track with these comments, I encourage the forum monitors to PM me and give me the right picture on things.

Well, nobody is pointing fingers are accusing. We are simply asking for more information about Plain Catholics; most specifically we are asking why:

- The main source MaxPC has cited is some blogs / websites about Plain Catholics.
- We are asking why those websites had pictures of German Baptists, which are plain Anabaptists, not Catholics.
- We are asking why the profile picture on the remaining blog is of an Irish woman who is well-attested in the historical record but was not a “Plain Catholic”; if there are any records of her being such. We would welcome them.
- We are asking if any of these people actually exist and would be willing to meet a fellow Catholic, a priest, or a bishop who is interested to do so. The answer seems to be a resounding “no”.
- Getting a “no” makes it reasonable to question if they exist at all. So far no evidence has been provided except MaxPC’s claims they exist, and a blog.

If MaxPC doesn’t want questioned about this, he may chose to stop promoting “Plain Catholics” on this forum, and stop claiming they exist on this forum, including using “we” to refer to practices he claims are Plain Catholic practices.

Another way to pursue your questions is through PMs. Also, if the forum monitors suspect that Plain Catholics are being promoted here they will deal with it. You can always privately discuss this with the monitors as they do the policing role to try to keep us in line. If they want to continue allowing what I think is far beyond 'simple asking for more information' then have at it.

Personally, I have no doubt that 'Plain Catholics' exist and if there is only one person who regards themself as a 'Plain Catholic', so be it. However, I believe there are many, although their use of the word 'plain' likely differs from 'Plain Mennonites'. I'm satisfied with the proof I see on the Internet.

[Josh]

Another way to pursue your questions is through PMs.

You keep assuming I haven’t done that.

This is a public discussion about publicly made claims.

Also, if the forum monitors suspect that Plain Catholics are being promoted here they will deal with it. You can always privately discuss this with the monitors as they do the policing role to try to keep us in line. If they want to continue allowing what I think is far beyond 'simple asking for more information' then have at it.

Nobody is objecting to promotion (maybe JM is). What we are objecting to is claims made that there are people living homesteading lifestyles, who call themselves “Plain Catholics”, and whose women wear cape dresses and kapps, which is the claim made.

[quotd]Personally, I have no doubt that 'Plain Catholics' exist and if there is only one person who regards themself as a 'Plain Catholic', so be it. However, I believe there are many, although their use of the word 'plain' likely differs from 'Plain Mennonites'. I'm satisfied with the proof I see on the Internet.
[/quote]

The “proof” on the Internet is pictures of plain Anabaptists. It is entirely reasonable to question such claims.