When Catholics leave the church…

[JayP]

There is no more pointless exercise than asking anything “about Catholics.”
Like perhaps Jews, unlike Protestants, so many “count” as Catholics based on birth and ethnicity how can questions be meaningfully asked?

The Italian gut down the street that has not been to Mass in 30 years checks the box on a political survey and says he is Catholic.

In addition, unlike Anabatists who number so very small Catholicism is so big with such variety it depends on who you ask.

I have the same bishop as Joe Biden. He attends a wispy washy novus ordo mass that allows him as a pronabortion politician, living with a woman to whom he probably isn’t married to under church law. I attend a Mass in a foreign language, Priests back to the people, with a different, yet valid, liturgy. Maybe Joe and I just might answer your questions differently?

[Judas Maccabeus]

There is no more pointless exercise than asking anything “about Catholics.”
Like perhaps Jews, unlike Protestants, so many “count” as Catholics based on birth and ethnicity how can questions be meaningfully asked?

The Italian gut down the street that has not been to Mass in 30 years checks the box on a political survey and says he is Catholic.

In addition, unlike Anabatists who number so very small Catholicism is so big with such variety it depends on who you ask.

I have the same bishop as Joe Biden. He attends a wispy washy novus ordo mass that allows him as a pronabortion politician, living with a woman to whom he probably isn’t married to under church law. I attend a Mass in a foreign language, Priests back to the people, with a different, yet valid, liturgy. Maybe Joe and I just might answer your questions differently?

Are you SSPX?

[Josh]

When working on the Cleveland / Akron area, sometimes the majority of my coworkers were raised Catholic. It seemed few of any were actually still believers and most had a negative attitude towards Catholic school (if they went to it), saying the prayers, Mass, confession, and feeling guilty about things.

Just an observation.

[Judas Maccabeus]

When working on the Cleveland / Akron area, sometimes the majority of my coworkers were raised Catholic. It seemed few of any were actually still believers and most had a negative attitude towards Catholic school (if they went to it), saying the prayers, Mass, confession, and feeling guilty about things.

Just an observation.

Effectively, my brother only went because it was one of the requirements for keeping his daughter in the Catholic school. As soon as she graduated, he stopped.

[MaxPC]

Steve has a thread that I feel is related to this one.
Steve's Thread

[Sudsy]

But why do I never run into bitter former Baptists or Pentecostals or whatever?

Perhaps because there is not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church.

That is not true today. There are lots of big evangelical churches, especially in the south, that have gone full MAGA Trump and anyone who doesn't share that political slant is ostracized. For example: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/629631/

And there is a similar phenomenon in urban churches in liberal areas in the opposite direction.

So are you saying that Christians will actually remove the church membership from anyone who is not a full MAGA Trump supporter ? If so, how sad.

Perhaps this is more of a U.S. problem than it is here in Canada where I live. I can go to our local Baptist and Pentecostal churches and they stay out of politics in their sermons. I have never run into anyone ostracized in a church here over their political views. I can't say this for sure but I doubt our local Pentecostal church would even encourage people to vote one way or another or to vote at all. Perhaps here in Canada politics and religion are not in bed with each other as it seems they are in some States.

I am a believer that the church should completely stay out of politics and instead focus on the mission we have been given as ambassadors of the Kingdom.

[Ken]

Perhaps because there is not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church.

That is not true today. There are lots of big evangelical churches, especially in the south, that have gone full MAGA Trump and anyone who doesn't share that political slant is ostracized. For example: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/629631/

And there is a similar phenomenon in urban churches in liberal areas in the opposite direction.

So are you saying that Christians will actually remove the church membership from anyone who is not a full MAGA Trump supporter ? If so, how sad.

Perhaps this is more of a U.S. problem than it is here in Canada where I live. I can go to our local Baptist and Pentecostal churches and they stay out of politics in their sermons. I have never run into anyone ostracized in a church here over their political views. I can't say this for sure but I doubt our local Pentecostal church would even encourage people to vote one way or another or to vote at all. Perhaps here in Canada politics and religion are not in bed with each other as it seems they are in some States.

I am a believer that the church should completely stay out of politics and instead focus on the mission we have been given as ambassadors of the Kingdom.

No, I'm not saying that churches explicitly expel people over political differences. Maybe that happens sometimes, but that isn't the main point.

I'm saying that churches are fracturing along political lines and people are being made to feel unwelcome or overtly driven out due to social pressure if they do not share the political leanings of the majority. And while that kind of thing is no doubt happening across the spectrum in liberal churches too, it seems to be most acute in southern evangelical churches that have gone full MAGA.

I also think it is more of a trait of evangelical churches than Catholic churches. The Catholic church, for whatever its flaws, is still a bigger and more diverse tent than many other denominations.

[MaxPC]

I am a believer that the church should completely stay out of politics and instead focus on the mission we have been given as ambassadors of the Kingdom.

Agree and amen.

[Josh]

Is there any actual evidence of churches making political affiliation a test of membership?

[MaxPC]

But why do I never run into bitter former Baptists or Pentecostals or whatever?

Perhaps because there is not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church. They may have joined the church but only as agreeing with a statement of faith and there was no church covenant. Or they are welcome to just be an adherent as a regular attender and participant where they are allowed to not 'join' in a formal way. This was the case in our former MB church where we had much opportunity to participate but not to vote on issues.

I was raised in a Pentecostal church with no formal church membership whatsoever. The only membership I ever agreed to was in a Baptist church where to be a member we formally shook hands with other members indicating we have decided to make this our home church.

That is not to say Pentecostal and Baptist churches don't have people leave and are bitter. In my experience this was due to some issue where they just couldn't get along over more personal than religious differences. Some people have a hard time joining anything as they, sooner or later, demand their own way.

I suspect Catholics don't have a 'police force' as some churches do making sure every member lives according to the rules.

That is my experience from Pentecostal (2), Baptist (2), Mennonite (1) and Salvation Army church going.

Indeed, though some are self-appointed liturgy gestapo.
I agree that many who leave a fellowship do so for personal reasons rather than a high-minded sense of doctrine. Whether those personal reasons are from bad treatment at the hands of membership or due to personal difficulties such as illness, "personal reasons" can encompass a large field.