When Catholics leave the church…

[Ken]

Is there any actual evidence of churches making political affiliation a test of membership?

Has anyone claimed that is happening?

[Ken]

I suspect Catholics don't have a 'police force' as some churches do making sure every member lives according to the rules.

That is my experience from Pentecostal (2), Baptist (2), Mennonite (1) and Salvation Army church going.

They do but it is done differently. Catholics have organizations like Opus Dei that attempt to enforce adherence to doctrine amongst those in power in government and business. Especially in overtly Catholic countries such as in Latin America. So it is kind of more like "secret societies" that run things behind the scenes rather than morality police that enforce standards among ordinary people like you would see in Muslim countries or within some conservative churches.

My wife has cousins who are in Opus Dei and in high-ranking positions in government and business in Chile so I've gotten a sense of how that works. They are more interested in controlling policy behind the scenes.

[ken_sylvania]

Is there any actual evidence of churches making political affiliation a test of membership?

Has anyone claimed that is happening?

Well, when Sudsy suggested that there "is not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church" there was a guy that claimed what Sudsy said wasn't true, and as an example claimed some churches ostracize anyone who isn't MAGA.

If that's not a claim of political affiliation as a test of membership, then the example cited was irrelevant to the claim being made.

[Ken]

Is there any actual evidence of churches making political affiliation a test of membership?

Has anyone claimed that is happening?

Well, when Sudsy suggested that there "is not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church" there was a guy that claimed what Sudsy said wasn't true, and as an example claimed some churches ostracize anyone who isn't MAGA.

If that's not a claim of political affiliation as a test of membership, then the example cited was irrelevant to the claim being made.

The existence of political divisions within a church and and the ostracizing of members who do not adhere to the dominant political ideology is not the same thing as having an actual political affiliation test for membership.

Although there actually are examples of pastors being fired for their politics or for not supporting Trump. So perhaps that is an example of what you are talking about: https://www.reckon.news/news/2021/10/a- ... hings.html

[ken_sylvania]

Has anyone claimed that is happening?

Well, when Sudsy suggested that there "is not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church" there was a guy that claimed what Sudsy said wasn't true, and as an example claimed some churches ostracize anyone who isn't MAGA.

If that's not a claim of political affiliation as a test of membership, then the example cited was irrelevant to the claim being made.

Political divisions within a church and and the ostracizing of members who do not adhere to the dominant political ideology is not the same thing as having an actual political affiliation test for membership.

Then it's not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church. So apparently what Sudsy said was true, after all.

[Ken]

Well, when Sudsy suggested that there "is not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church" there was a guy that claimed what Sudsy said wasn't true, and as an example claimed some churches ostracize anyone who isn't MAGA.

If that's not a claim of political affiliation as a test of membership, then the example cited was irrelevant to the claim being made.

Political divisions within a church and and the ostracizing of members who do not adhere to the dominant political ideology is not the same thing as having an actual political affiliation test for membership.

Then it's not a demand that they must live a certain way or they can't be part of that church. So apparently what Sudsy said was true, after all.

I'm not sure what specific point you think you are arguing with. I was responding to BOTH Goodgirl and Sudsy to make the point that there are, indeed, many "bitter" ex-evangelicals who have been ostracized from their churches over political differences. This has been well documented trend and happening all across the country. Both on right and left.

Does it rise to the level of formal excommunication or stripping of membership over political differences. Probably not, at least not commonly. But it is a real thing. And as I pointed out above, there are certainly ministers who have been fired over their lack of support for Trump. Which isn't exactly the same thing as church membership but similar.

[Sudsy]

In the MB church I attended there was this one fellow that would try to get conversation going on politics and he came across as being very bitter. What I noticed was people would just find reasons to break off conversations with him and either walk away or work hard to change the subject. I was one who tried to just say something like 'we sure live in a crazy world don't we' and then try to change the subject.

I have a Christian neighbour that loves to talk about all the things wrong with this world and I sometimes listen and not interrupt him on whatever his latest concerns are. But then don't let on whether I agree with him or not. Sometimes people just need to vent their bitterness about something of this world and not joining in with them can have a positive impact, in my experience.

[MaxPC]

In the MB church I attended there was this one fellow that would try to get conversation going on politics and he came across as being very bitter. What I noticed was people would just find reasons to break off conversations with him and either walk away or work hard to change the subject. I was one who tried to just say something like 'we sure live in a crazy world don't we' and then try to change the subject.

I have a Christian neighbour that loves to talk about all the things wrong with this world and I sometimes listen and not interrupt him on whatever his latest concerns are. But then don't let on whether I agree with him or not. Sometimes people just need to vent their bitterness about something of this world and not joining in with them can have a positive impact, in my experience.

Agreed. We have met a number of people who do this. Sometimes they are elderly and need to voice their fears. Sometimes they are angry or negative personalities who are mentally stuck on a single attitude.

[JayP]

To Judas,

No. I am quite familiar with SSPX, but mo I do not belong.
My Tridentine experience is completely within the Diocesan framework.

I just prefer it to the Novus Ordo Mass. that is a Latin phrase for the post Vatican II mass that translated means banal.