Alistair Begg: You should go to a transsexual wedding

[ken_sylvania]

You must be reading a different Bible?

Here is the NIV Translation of John Chapter 3 which uses quote marks to indicate Jesus' actual words. I have highlighted in blue his actual words according to this particular translation: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

If this is not accurate then there is a mis-translation in NIV translation and the translators neglected to consistently use quotation marks. Which would be an egregious error in such a fundamental passage.

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

John Testifies Again About Jesus
22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.) 25 An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

The quotation marks that the NIV uses in this passage are an addition to the text - they were not in the original writings.

[temporal1]

That is interesting...I looked at 5 other popular Bible versions and the NIV is the only one that does not include vs 16-21 in quotes as part of Jesus' words. I wonder why that would be. I have never run across any reference that vs 16-21 would not be a quote. My quote was from the ESV incidentally.

The newer editions of the NIV have been in question for some years. i don’t recall the edition year that changed.
Now i wonder where my older NIV is?! If i can locate it, i’ll take a look.

i wouldn’t use or recommend NIV, esp the newer ones. Or, read side by side with others.

i began studying with an NIV study edition. Because it was in question even back then, i read it side by side with KJV.
Then i discovered the parallel NT, with 8 translations. Even better.

The quotation marks that the NIV uses in this passage are an addition to the text - they were not in the original writings.

o.yes.
that reminds. originally, there were no chapters+verses. i’ve never seen a Bible without, but i read about it on MD, and some members had read it. interesting to imagine. i think Wayne in Maine was one.

[eccentric_rambler]

The quotation marks that the NIV uses in this passage are an addition to the text - they were not in the original writings.

As are red letters - at least I have yet to meet anyone who thinks John kept two pens and inkpots handy when he wrote.

[ken_sylvania]

The quotation marks that the NIV uses in this passage are an addition to the text - they were not in the original writings.

As are red letters - at least I have yet to meet anyone who thinks John kept two pens and inkpots handy when he wrote.

The KJV Bible in my desk drawer here has no added red letters.

[eccentric_rambler]

The KJV Bible in my desk drawer here has no added red letters.

Neither does mine, just agreeing with you that we have to try the case on the merits of Ken's/NIV's interpretation, since neither quotation marks nor red letters are original.

[Ken]

The quotation marks that the NIV uses in this passage are an addition to the text - they were not in the original writings.

Well no, there wouldn't be since Ancient Greek and Aramaic have no quotation marks.

[ken_sylvania]

The quotation marks that the NIV uses in this passage are an addition to the text - they were not in the original writings.

Well no, there wouldn't be since Ancient Greek and Aramaic have no quotation marks.

Exactly.

[RZehr]

NIV: the Nearly Inspired Version.

[Valerie]

Interesting. Parkside Church dropped the use of NIV after the new one came out and our bookstore sells a lot of Bibles but removed NIV. Our Church uses ESV.

[Valerie]

Valerie, I think you were going to go to an evening service where Alistair was going to share more on his recommendation to this lady. Did I understand this correctly ? If so, did you go and what did he say that we don't already know ?

https://www.parksidechurch.com/learn/re ... /archives/

There you go Sudsy, I wasn't sure if the evening service would be available but it is for you to hear.

I had a customer this morning who knows I go to Parkside & her daughter works for Truth For Life. She said she agreed with Alistair's counsel because he advised the grandmother to make sure the couple knew her belief about it and to be clear by her attending didn't mean she was affirming it. I just replied that we (husband & I) disagreed because a wedding is a celebration where you are joining to celebrate and be a witness. I do not equate being absent as being like as pharisee

I listened to that link this morning and at first I thought he was going in the wrong direction. But as he went on to explain the reasoning and that it was his opinion in this one particular instance, I wasn't sure that I could condemn the counsel he gave to this woman, there was too much information missing concerning the singular events leading up to the decision.
My understanding is that the grandmother gave the "couple" a Bible as a "wedding" gift.
That, in my opinion, puts the onus on the Holy Spirit, which is where it belongs, to work in the lives of these people.

Jesus said,

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Unremitting condemnation by believers of sinners has a tendency to close doors against possible fruitful dialogue.
However, what Jesus did, showing compassion to the lost sinner without affirmation of the sin is very difficult for people like us to pull off.
What would I do? I would probably not go, but the whole scenario gives another angle to at least consider.

It did really help to hear his explanation- but the world to which his original statement/interview didn't have the explanation. Our hearts are heavy for what all he's going through over this.

It did help give us more understanding where he was coming from- so many these days are put in this situation we older ones never imagined making decisions on. Usually one is given much time to pray for direction. Question is how are you showing the most love towards them? Going and being part of the celebration, or the hard way of loving, showing your love for God and their souls keep you from celebrating. Seems the Lord can help you convey love without the celebration participation.