Alistair Begg: You should go to a transsexual wedding

[Josh]

I wouldn’t attend a believer getting married to an unbeliever. Ezra comes to mind…

[Valerie]

Valerie, I think you were going to go to an evening service where Alistair was going to share more on his recommendation to this lady. Did I understand this correctly ? If so, did you go and what did he say that we don't already know ?

https://www.parksidechurch.com/learn/re ... /archives/

There you go Sudsy, I wasn't sure if the evening service would be available but it is for you to hear.

I had a customer this morning who knows I go to Parkside & her daughter works for Truth For Life. She said she agreed with Alistair's counsel because he advised the grandmother to make sure the couple knew her belief about it and to be clear by her attending didn't mean she was affirming it. I just replied that we (husband & I) disagreed because a wedding is a celebration where you are joining to celebrate and be a witness. I do not equate being absent as being like as pharisee

Thanks Valerie. I really enjoyed hearing his explanation and it gives me lots to think about on where we draw the line in attempts to win the lost.

So, how would you respond to someone you know to be a believer but was marrying an unbeliever ? Would you stay away from that type of wedding also so it doesn't appear that you are celebrating ? Or perhaps a Catholic marrying a Mennonite in a Catholic church ? Or a second or third marriage situation ? Where does one draw the line on being 'unequally yoked together' and the celebrations of these ?

I think comparing the Pharisees in Jesus day and what they would or would not do regarding who they would not be seen with is interesting. They obviously had a heart condition that lacked compassion. Jesus really didn't concern Himself with the opinions of others, especially the Pharisees, as He mingled and reached out to others. Jesus attended a marriage in Cana and after they ran out of wine, He made more wine than they could ever drink at this wedding. And some have tried to convince us that the wine He made had no alcohol content. But this is their speculation only.

I just find it interesting how Jesus often operated outside of the religious beliefs in His day for His greater purposes and we know that religion often gets in the way of the salvation of others.

Anyway, thanks for that link and I do believe in living by our own convictions and that is what we will give an account for.

I think if a believer marries an unbeliever I may or may not attend. It is not a "vile" sin or ever called an abomination. I think I'd still take the opportunity if it presented itself to try to share with the believer what would concern me.

Is a marriage like that "legitimate"? Apparently as they become one flesh and the believer is not to depart. It is still "natural".
In the case of LGBTQ it is not marriage it is mockery of marriage. If either becomes a Christian, they would then find it necessary to end the mockery. Totally different situation. They did not become "one flesh".

[temporal1]

Evenly yoked is ideal, but God provides for the imperfect:

1 Cor 7:14
https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/7-14.htm

13And if a woman has an unbelieving husband and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his believing wife,
and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband.
Otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him go.
The believing brother or sister is not bound in such cases. God has called you to live in peace.…

Marriage contracts are intended to protect all involved - esp in times of trouble.

[silentreader]

Valerie, I think you were going to go to an evening service where Alistair was going to share more on his recommendation to this lady. Did I understand this correctly ? If so, did you go and what did he say that we don't already know ?

https://www.parksidechurch.com/learn/re ... /archives/

There you go Sudsy, I wasn't sure if the evening service would be available but it is for you to hear.

I had a customer this morning who knows I go to Parkside & her daughter works for Truth For Life. She said she agreed with Alistair's counsel because he advised the grandmother to make sure the couple knew her belief about it and to be clear by her attending didn't mean she was affirming it. I just replied that we (husband & I) disagreed because a wedding is a celebration where you are joining to celebrate and be a witness. I do not equate being absent as being like as pharisee

I listened to that link this morning and at first I thought he was going in the wrong direction. But as he went on to explain the reasoning and that it was his opinion in this one particular instance, I wasn't sure that I could condemn the counsel he gave to this woman, there was too much information missing concerning the singular events leading up to the decision.
My understanding is that the grandmother gave the "couple" a Bible as a "wedding" gift.
That, in my opinion, puts the onus on the Holy Spirit, which is where it belongs, to work in the lives of these people.

Jesus said,

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Unremitting condemnation by believers of sinners has a tendency to close doors against possible fruitful dialogue.
However, what Jesus did, showing compassion to the lost sinner without affirmation of the sin is very difficult for people like us to pull off.
What would I do? I would probably not go, but the whole scenario gives another angle to at least consider.

[Ken]

Jesus said,

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Technically the Apostle John said (or wrote it), not Jesus.

But I agree with your point.

[ken_sylvania]

Jesus said,

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Technically the Apostle John said (or wrote it), not Jesus.

But I agree with your point.

You think John was lying when he wrote that Jesus said these words?

[Ken]

Jesus said,

Technically the Apostle John said (or wrote it), not Jesus.

But I agree with your point.

You think John was lying when he wrote that Jesus said these words?

Not at all.

If you read the Gospel of John, some of it is the writings and teachings of the Apostle John. And some of it is him directly quoting Jesus.

In this particular instance he is relaying his own words, not those of Jesus. If you read John Chapter 3, verses 10-15 are the direct words of Jesus. Verses 16-21 are the words of John.

It is just a nitpick. I agree with silentreader's underlying point that "Unremitting condemnation by believers of sinners has a tendency to close doors against possible fruitful dialogue."

[silentreader]

Technically the Apostle John said (or wrote it), not Jesus.

But I agree with your point.

You think John was lying when he wrote that Jesus said these words?

Not at all.

If you read the Gospel of John, some of it is the writings and teachings of the Apostle John. And some of it is him directly quoting Jesus.

In this particular instance he is relaying his own words, not those of Jesus.

You must be reading a different Bible?

9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

For God So Loved the World
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

[Ken]

You must be reading a different Bible?

Here is the NIV Translation of John Chapter 3 which uses quote marks to indicate Jesus' actual words. I have highlighted in blue his actual words according to this particular translation: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

If this is not accurate then there is a mis-translation in NIV translation and the translators neglected to consistently use quotation marks. Which would be an egregious error in such a fundamental passage.

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

John Testifies Again About Jesus
22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.) 25 An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

[silentreader]

You must be reading a different Bible?

Here is the NIV Translation of John Chapter 3 which uses quote marks to indicate Jesus' actual words. I have highlighted in blue his actual words according to this particular translation: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

If this is not accurate then there is a mis-translation in NIV translation and the translators neglected to consistently use quotation marks. Which would be an egregious error in such a fundamental passage.

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

John Testifies Again About Jesus
22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.) 25 An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—look, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”

27 To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him.’ 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

That is interesting...I looked at 5 other popular Bible versions and the NIV is the only one that does not include vs 16-21 in quotes as part of Jesus' words. I wonder why that would be. I have never run across any reference that vs 16-21 would not be a quote. My quote was from the ESV incidentally.

Further checking NET also omits Qmarks

In the NET translators' notes at the end of v15 it just says "some interpreters extend the quotation to the end of v21"