As grace window closes, UMC is 25% smaller

[cooper]

25 miles away, the Wesleyan Holiness seminary/college and churches keep plugging away. But I have seen no forging of connections between former UMC and even groups like Free Methodists. Basically, GMC is a good bit more liberal than Holiness groups or even Free Methodists. I suspect the women pastors issue is one of the main issues.

Free Methodists ordain women. For example, the founder of the Junia Project.

[Josh]

25 miles away, the Wesleyan Holiness seminary/college and churches keep plugging away. But I have seen no forging of connections between former UMC and even groups like Free Methodists. Basically, GMC is a good bit more liberal than Holiness groups or even Free Methodists. I suspect the women pastors issue is one of the main issues.

Free Methodists ordain women. For example, the founder of the Junia Project.

Sorry. I should have been clear - the Holiness groups do ordain women but it’s rare and your typical UMC church with a woman pastor with an “Episcopal retiree haircut” would have major changes ahead to ally with a Holiness church.

[ohio jones]

The liberals gamed the system and gave American churches more votes per church/member than the Africans have. Quite convenient.

The article posted by MaxPC says the EXACT OPPOSITE:

Huh? The part you quoted doesn't even address American vs. African power politics.

Christianity Today has this to say on the subject:

While the split in the US reaches a conclusion this year, disaffiliations are still being worked out internationally. The UMC has twice as many members abroad as it does in the US. Scott Field, president of the Wesleyan Covenant Association, told the Associated Press he predicted an upcoming “African wave,” with conservative bishops deciding to leave.

At its General Conference in the coming spring, the denomination is proposing a new structure for organizing across continents to allow for “regionalization” and contextualization of the church.

“We reject the proposed regionalization plan, aimed at silencing the voice of the church in Africa,” wrote Jerry P. Kulah, a United Methodist leader in Liberia and general coordinator of the UMC Africa Initiative. “The effect of that plan would be to compartmentalize sin within the UMC and make the African church complicit in allowing the US church to adopt unscriptural teachings and standards.”

[MaxPC]

Christianity Today has this to say on the subject:

While the split in the US reaches a conclusion this year, disaffiliations are still being worked out internationally. The UMC has twice as many members abroad as it does in the US. Scott Field, president of the Wesleyan Covenant Association, told the Associated Press he predicted an upcoming “African wave,” with conservative bishops deciding to leave.

At its General Conference in the coming spring, the denomination is proposing a new structure for organizing across continents to allow for “regionalization” and contextualization of the church.

“We reject the proposed regionalization plan, aimed at silencing the voice of the church in Africa,” wrote Jerry P. Kulah, a United Methodist leader in Liberia and general coordinator of the UMC Africa Initiative. “The effect of that plan would be to compartmentalize sin within the UMC and make the African church complicit in allowing the US church to adopt unscriptural teachings and standards.”

I wonder about the African Methodist Episcopal congregation. At one time I saw their churches in nearly every county and town. What is happening there and is it possible that African MCs would view that as a possible refuge?

[Josh]

The AME is a black American denomination. I used to live down the road from one of the oldest ones in Ohio, founded in the 1820s.

The UMC is a global church that sent missionaries overseas and now has a quite large African membership. (The AME did not conduct this level of denominational mission activity and thus didn’t become a global denomination.)

At question is the fact that overseas votes don’t count for as much as American ones, and in particular, Western American votes count more than Eastern ones did, even to Western conferences have declining membership and coffers. The Eastern conferences had a few successful Megachurches.

The Western bishops voted themselves a pay raise to $186k (plus benefits and pension). I remain curious what a UMC bishop actually does, other than ignore African members, sell off church buildings, and vote themselves lavish benefits.

[Ken]

The liberals gamed the system and gave American churches more votes per church/member than the Africans have. Quite convenient.

The article posted by MaxPC says the EXACT OPPOSITE:

Huh? The part you quoted doesn't even address American vs. African power politics.

Christianity Today has this to say on the subject:

While the split in the US reaches a conclusion this year, disaffiliations are still being worked out internationally. The UMC has twice as many members abroad as it does in the US. Scott Field, president of the Wesleyan Covenant Association, told the Associated Press he predicted an upcoming “African wave,” with conservative bishops deciding to leave.

At its General Conference in the coming spring, the denomination is proposing a new structure for organizing across continents to allow for “regionalization” and contextualization of the church.

“We reject the proposed regionalization plan, aimed at silencing the voice of the church in Africa,” wrote Jerry P. Kulah, a United Methodist leader in Liberia and general coordinator of the UMC Africa Initiative. “The effect of that plan would be to compartmentalize sin within the UMC and make the African church complicit in allowing the US church to adopt unscriptural teachings and standards.”

I'm merely pointing out that the 2019 vote that led to this split was won by the conservatives, not the liberals. They set up a mechanism for liberal churches to leave but a bunch of conservative churches decided to do it instead.

It should shock exactly no one that the congregations that remain will be the more mainstream liberal ones.