The Church of God Movement

[Ernie]

https://www.elcristianismoprimitivo.com ... ration.pdf

An interesting article by Mike Atnip about the Church of God movement, emotionalism, sectarianism, and more.

Posting in this thread is limited to those who read the complete article.

[Sudsy]

https://www.elcristianismoprimitivo.com ... ration.pdf

An interesting article by Mike Atnip about the Church of God movement, emotionalism, sectarianism, and more.

Posting in this thread is limited to those who read the complete article.

An interesting read and much I agree with. I especially agree with this statement -

To be a church of Jesus, all that is required is for two genuine, bornagain believers to meet together in Jesus’ name.

I believe God is building His Church inspite of all this sectarianism that man has come up with thinking or even claiming to be the one true church.

One reason, imo, for sectarianism is when any group loses their focus on sharing the message of salvation and seeing new converts saved in their churches. It becomes all about me and my salvation and little about others who are unsaved. This has resulted in many church splits, which many Anabaptists seem to excel in, regarding what is believed to be either 'liberal' or 'conservative' and these issues often result in bickering amongst themselves and meanwhile show little concern for the lost.

One of the splits mentioned in this article was over 'the wearing of adornment, in particular, the neck-tie'. Seems outward apparel has often been a contenious area regarding what is 'worldly' and what is not. We had something similar in Pentecostalism when I was a youth. I think satan is quite pleased when we leave his people alone and instead judge one another's sanctification.

What else can we discuss about this article ?

[Josh]

Good article on the overall CoG movement, which left a very large mark on plain people. Alongside the holiness movement, it pretty much defines a large part of what conservative Anabaptists (but not Amish) are today.

[Neto]

I have no acquaintance with this movement.

I have just two comments:
1.) regarding the contents of footnote #34, pg 24 (and the comment it was intended to support), many false claims have been made about the anabaptists, as also about other movements. The key words in that footnote was that it was a non-anabaptist making a comment ABOUT the anabaptists.

2.) a general comment: Starting a new church group, then trying to create the true, undivided church will never work. As long as your congregation, conference, sect, denomination (whatever) is not openly heretical, STAY where you are, and start reaching "across the isle", seeking to fellowship with anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus. You will soon find out who is, and who isn't. And the "who ises" and the "who isn'tes" may be in the very same groups.

[Josh]

I have no acquaintance with this movement.

I have just two comments:
1.) regarding the contents of footnote #34, pg 24 (and the comment it was intended to support), many false claims have been made about the anabaptists, as also about other movements. The key words in that footnote was that it was a non-anabaptist making a comment ABOUT the anabaptists.

2.) a general comment: Starting a new church group, then trying to create the true, undivided church will never work. As long as your congregation, conference, sect, denomination (whatever) is not openly heretical, STAY where you are, and start reaching "across the isle", seeking to fellowship with anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus. You will soon find out who is, and who isn't. And the "who ises" and the "who isn'tes" may be in the very same groups.

If we followed #2, wouldn’t we all still be in the Roman Catholic Church? In particular the Dutch Anabaptists believed we should have a pure church and a clean communion.

[Neto]

I have no acquaintance with this movement.

I have just two comments:
1.) regarding the contents of footnote #34, pg 24 (and the comment it was intended to support), many false claims have been made about the anabaptists, as also about other movements. The key words in that footnote was that it was a non-anabaptist making a comment ABOUT the anabaptists.

2.) a general comment: Starting a new church group, then trying to create the true, undivided church will never work. As long as your congregation, conference, sect, denomination (whatever) is not openly heretical, STAY where you are, and start reaching "across the isle", seeking to fellowship with anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus. You will soon find out who is, and who isn't. And the "who ises" and the "who isn'tes" may be in the very same groups.

If we followed #2, wouldn’t we all still be in the Roman Catholic Church? In particular the Dutch Anabaptists believed we should have a pure church and a clean communion.

The Dutch baptism-minded considered the Catholic church to be heretical, so they had no choice but to leave it. (And in that era, I think they were correct.)

I did say "that is not openly heretical", but should have been more descriptive about what I mean by "fellowshipping" in this particular context. I just mean giving mutual encouragement, and "urging on to good works", as we are told to do in the Scripture. Not communion. I wasn't talking about JOINING the church group that everyone you meet belongs to - just that true followers of Jesus should be able to fellowship together one on one. I often "privately" fellowship with people who belong to congregations who would not "officially" fellowship with my congregation, and individuals who might not want to fellowship with me if others of their own members were also there. I do not have a problem with that. (This is, incidentally, one of the things the early MBs were criticized for. The name "Brethren" originated as a criticism, not as a complement or as a self-designation. Some of the Big Church members called them that in derision, saying "They call anyone at all 'Brother'.")

Some might think I am wrong to do this, and I will stop if convicted that it is wrong. I talked about this at an area church where I was asked to bring the message one Sunday this past Summer. Basically, I told how the Kingdom of God came to the Banawa, through the power of Jesus against evil spirits. They "tried it", and it worked. This was the gate way though which they moved toward Jesus the Christ, and eventually became Christians. When they first heard the Gospel, they were completely open about the fact that they weren't believers.

It is different when you are attempting to stir someone up to faith who THINKS and SAYS that they are Christians. They may or may not be. OK, I thought, they claim it, so I will treat them like they are. True Believers fellowship with one another. So I just "witnessed" to them, just like my Christian brothers in my own congregation do to me, and I to them.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Fun Fact: My former Christian and Missionary Alliance church actually began as a “Church of God”. From the archives that we closed up and sent ro the archives, it was most likely an “Evening Light” congregation, maybe Anderson. Left the movement not for doctrine, but there were no other congregations to fellowship with here.

[Swiss Bro]

That sounded familiar. Our church has its origins at the same time, mixing anabaptist and holiness elements (among others), claiming to reflect early church practice (it‘s even called Apostolic Christian Church in the US), and the founder (Bro. S. H. Fröhlich) initially also stated he never wanted to start a sect. It became just that and also split multiple times.

Incredible how many sects spawned out of these early 19 century awakenings movements, be it in the US, the UK or continental Europe. Undeniably the Spirit was working powerfully at that time. Darby dispies affirm it was the time of Philadelphia, one of the good churches of the seven churches of Rev. 2/3, whereas now we are seeing many Laodicean churches, that have become lukewarm.

[Valerie]

The article was from 2006- wasn't Mike Atnip in Charity Church in Leola PA at that time? I was really drawn to Charity from 2007 for a few years after- upon reading this article I would have though Mike may have perceived some similar characteristics in my Charity movement-i was starting to sense some things that kept him from Church of God (at the time we couldn't have joined anyway due to D & R but I felt I "needed" their influence & teaching,)

He brings up some thought provoking questions I took have wrestled with. It is what it is in where we are today, you cannot squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube

These kind of articles make me feel more comfortable in denominations which make no claim to primitive Christianity- at the same time it makes me understand why many who did not grow up Eastern Orthodox- went there. At least they can truly make the claim of starting out with the Apostles. I KNOW in my heart God is not pleased with the sectarianism of today while seemingly allowing it. It hurts to see it, it must really hurt Him.

Yesterday while driving we were listening to a Missionary broadcast/discussion. The one speaker was from the part of India where the Apostle Thomas took the Gospel. He explained how there's been Christians in that particular part of India since Thomas came. Was pretty interesting. We drove by n Indian Orthodox Church one Sunday a few years ago- what a joy these people were! To think they were 2000 years strong,! What spoke to us while there- they were just like other Eastern Orthodox Churches we visited & with Thomas starting their Church in India so far from other EO areas, it really affirms their worship beliefs & practices- the man on the radio was surprised that American Christians were ,"surprised" about 2000 yr church in this part of India.
I did not know about Thomas journey until a few years ago as it wasn't recorded in Scripture but he was "sent" there because there were some Jews there!

Where is Mike Atnip now? I understand his article completely

[Josh]

Of all things that were relevant to this article, Eastern Orthodoxy is not one of them.

But the St Thomas sects in India aren’t even Eastern Orthodox; they were Church of the East, and there have been myriad schisms in the last century in that particular group.

The Saint Thomas Christians had been historically a part of the hierarchy of the Church of the East but are now divided into several different Eastern Catholic, Oriental Orthodox, Protestant, and independent bodies, each with their own liturgies and traditions.

Valerie,

What spoke to us while there- they were just like other Eastern Orthodox Churches we visited & with Thomas starting their Church in India so far from other EO areas, it really affirms their worship beliefs & practices- the man on the radio was surprised that American Christians were ,"surprised" about 2000 yr church in this part of India.

This is akin to visiting a Beachy church in Poland and then celebrating how the Amish are a 2,000 year old church in that part of Europe.