The Lord's Prayer

[Sudsy]

This is a thread to share our thoughts, interpretations, use of and anything else regarding the Lord's Prayer that is sometimes referred to as the 'Our Father' prayer. This is the KJV version taken from Matthew 6:9-13 -

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Refer to other translations and paraphrases that you prefer in this study.

You might also want to compare the Luke 11:1-4 story where it begins with the disciples actually asking Jesus - 'Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.'

A comment to begin with - Many Christian churches do not recite this prayer corporately in their worship and as some believe it is too rote. Any thoughts on this and how often does your church corporately repeat the Lord's prayer as written in the scripture ?

[barnhart]

I especially appreciate the last verse. I don't think it's a coincidence that deliverance from evil is followed by the commitment of Kingdom, power and glory to God alone. For when we pursue these things we fall into evil.

[mike]

I especially appreciate the last verse. I don't think it's a coincidence that deliverance from evil is followed by the commitment of Kingdom, power and glory to God alone. For when we pursue these things we fall into evil.

Our church recites it at the close of each prayer meeting.

About that last verse, I’ve heard it isn’t found in the oldest manuscripts. It could have been added to make it a “complete” prayer. I do like it though and I don’t have a problem with using it. We often conclude family prayer with it as well.

[Swiss Bro]

Jesus taught it before the Holy Ghost descended upon the church. Now that we have the Holy Ghost, we do not need a formula but can pray in the Spirit.

However, it is a useful (and beautiful) template or guideline also showing the right priority for our prayers: give praise first, pray for the Kingdom to come and God‘s will to be done before addressing personal stuff.

Nowt wrong with praying it tho as long as it‘s done mindfully and not just rattled down without thinking of the meaning.

[JimFoxvog]

A friend of mine, a church elder, uses "thy will be done" in the sense of accepting hard things.

I generally pray "Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven", in the sense of God's way of peace and justice triumphing over evil, similar to "Your kingdom come."

[Sudsy]

I especially appreciate the last verse. I don't think it's a coincidence that deliverance from evil is followed by the commitment of Kingdom, power and glory to God alone. For when we pursue these things we fall into evil.

Our church recites it at the close of each prayer meeting.

About that last verse, I’ve heard it isn’t found in the oldest manuscripts. It could have been added to make it a “complete” prayer. I do like it though and I don’t have a problem with using it. We often conclude family prayer with it as well.

Yes, that is interesting to me also and the versions of this prayer in Luke 11 in all bible versions omits this closing.

Matthew - https://biblehub.com/matthew/6-13.htm
Luke - https://biblehub.com/luke/11-4.htm

I remember as a child when we would stand in our school classroom and together would recite a 'pledge allegiance to the flag ----' followed by the Matthew KJV version of the Lord's prayer. I suppose that practise is long gone.

[Sudsy]

Jesus taught it before the Holy Ghost descended upon the church. Now that we have the Holy Ghost, we do not need a formula but can pray in the Spirit.

However, it is a useful (and beautiful) template or guideline also showing the right priority for our prayers: give praise first, pray for the Kingdom to come and God‘s will to be done before addressing personal stuff.

Nowt wrong with praying it tho as long as it‘s done mindfully and not just rattled down without thinking of the meaning.

Your first argument is something like I was raised to believe in Pentecostalism and repeating this prayer could be a way of using 'vain babblings' in our prayers. And I think that can be true of a number of phrases we repeat in prayers when we think God will hear us for our much praying rather than the content of the prayer. Seems though, although I don't see any specific reference in the NT to repeating it as Jesus said to, that the early church did repeat it and the practise was to do this 3 times a day.

According to the Didache (written after the Holy Spirit descended upon the church ) it says -

Neither pray as the hypocrites; but as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, thus pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily (needful) bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one (or, evil); for Yours is the power and the glory forever. Thrice in the day thus pray.

I wonder if perhaps this is an area we were meant to pray in a literal manner but where the Didache gets the 3 times a day from I don't know. Other practises such as water baptisms and fasting also seems to have instructions not found as such in scriptures.

[Swiss Bro]

Jesus taught it before the Holy Ghost descended upon the church. Now that we have the Holy Ghost, we do not need a formula but can pray in the Spirit.

However, it is a useful (and beautiful) template or guideline also showing the right priority for our prayers: give praise first, pray for the Kingdom to come and God‘s will to be done before addressing personal stuff.

Nowt wrong with praying it tho as long as it‘s done mindfully and not just rattled down without thinking of the meaning.

Your first argument is something like I was raised to believe in Pentecostalism and repeating this prayer could be a way of using 'vain babblings' in our prayers. And I think that can be true of a number of phrases we repeat in prayers when we think God will hear us for our much praying rather than the content of the prayer. Seems though, although I don't see any specific reference in the NT to repeating it as Jesus said to, that the early church did repeat it and the practise was to do this 3 times a day.

According to the Didache (written after the Holy Spirit descended upon the church ) it says -

Neither pray as the hypocrites; but as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, thus pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily (needful) bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one (or, evil); for Yours is the power and the glory forever. Thrice in the day thus pray.

I wonder if perhaps this is an area we were meant to pray in a literal manner but where the Didache gets the 3 times a day from I don't know. Other practises such as water baptisms and fasting also seems to have instructions not found as such in scriptures.

I did not know this, thanks for pointing it out! However, only because the early church did it does not mean it was biblical. False doctrines crept in right from the start, as mentioned in the letter of Jude or Galatians, for example. The Didache is not inspired.

As regards repeating prayer, this is biblical, at least in my understanding of Luke 18:

1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

[Sudsy]

As regards repeating prayer, this is biblical, at least in my understanding of Luke 18:

1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Yes, as to repeating prayers, Paul prayed 3 times to have his thorn in the flesh removed and Jesus, in Gethsemane, not only prayed 3 times but used the same words. In the days of Christ, pagans would pray endless prayers over and over in the hope that the repetition itself would cause their false gods to respond. I believe Jesus is speaking against meaningless praying. I think He’s speaking against thinking that the more words you pile up, the more effectual your prayers will be.

When I was a youth I went to a church where the whole church would kneel in prayer in the middle of the worship service and the leader would ask someone to lead us in prayer and then whoever wanted to would lead in prayer when they were finished. What would puzzle me is why after the first person prayed, others would pray about the same issue only using their own words. I wondered at times whether some of these prayers were prayed because the previous prayer didn't really express the prayer as well as the next prayer(s) wanted it expressed.

One day I was in a meeting where we went to pray but before hand the prayer leader would take prayer requests, write them down, and then ask different individuals to lead us in prayer on the specific items he had written down so there was no repeating. This occured in home bible studies a few times also. To me, I thought this was a good way to pray and would keep us away from unnessary repeated praying on the same issue.

For those who have prayed in settings where more than one person prays and prays over the same issues as the first prayer, did this strike you as odd and perhaps unnecessary ?

[Heirbyadoption]

Sudsy, our particular strain of Anabaptists ("Brethren", aka Old German Baptist Brethren) generally use the Lord's Prayer at the end of our Opening/Devotional time after a brother leads out with an audible prayer, and then at the end of our worship service. Sometimes it is prayed aloud by a brother, sometimes all are invited to pray it together, and sometimes the congregation sings a version of it instead. Some would probably consider it rote, others find it deeply meaningful. It is one of the common aspects of the worship format throughout all of our congregations across the country (and among all the groups from our various divisions, like all good conservative Anabaptists, lol), just as the Amish sing their Loblied hymn (O Gott & Vater) as the second hymn in about every one of their services across the board.