Sudsy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:35 pm
Swiss Bro wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:59 pm
Jesus taught it before the Holy Ghost descended upon the church. Now that we have the Holy Ghost, we do not need a formula but can pray in the Spirit.
However, it is a useful (and beautiful) template or guideline also showing the right priority for our prayers: give praise first, pray for the Kingdom to come and God‘s will to be done before addressing personal stuff.
Nowt wrong with praying it tho as long as it‘s done mindfully and not just rattled down without thinking of the meaning.
Your first argument is something like I was raised to believe in Pentecostalism and repeating this prayer could be a way of using 'vain babblings' in our prayers. And I think that can be true of a number of phrases we repeat in prayers when we think God will hear us for our much praying rather than the content of the prayer. Seems though, although I don't see any specific reference in the NT to repeating it as Jesus said to, that the early church did repeat it and the practise was to do this 3 times a day.
According to the Didache (written after the Holy Spirit descended upon the church ) it says -
Neither pray as the hypocrites; but as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, thus pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily (needful) bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one (or, evil); for Yours is the power and the glory forever. Thrice in the day thus pray.
I wonder if perhaps this is an area we were meant to pray in a literal manner but where the Didache gets the 3 times a day from I don't know. Other practises such as water baptisms and fasting also seems to have instructions not found as such in scriptures.
I did not know this, thanks for pointing it out! However, only because the early church did it does not mean it was biblical. False doctrines crept in right from the start, as mentioned in the letter of Jude or Galatians, for example. The Didache is not inspired.
As regards repeating prayer, this is biblical, at least in my understanding of Luke 18:
1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that
men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which
cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?