Witness of the Spirit

[Sudsy]

This seems like clarifying something on behalf of God, that God did not feel a need to clarify in his Word.

We are told to believe, repent, obey, be baptized, call on the name of the Lord, etc.
I don't find what you say in the Word of God.

I believe that there is a basic embracing of the truth about Jesus required for salvation and this is a life changing, new birth into a new life in Christ. New desires are put within us to want to follow Jesus. This new desire put there by Jesus is required to have eternal life. When it comes to our performance as born again believers we will be judged someday on our performance at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Our works will be tested by fire and rewards given out on the quality of our performance. These works will either stand the test of fire and merit reward or they will just be burnt up.

Some people believe they can save themselves by their religious acts as was the case of the Pharisees in Jesus days on earth. Jesus pointed out to them their need was a changed heart to know how to love God and others. They needed to be born of the Spirit. Similar type of people are in our world today that are keen to do good works and are not trusting on what Jesus did to save them. When truly born again, good works will follow but we are not saved by our perfect obedience. We are saved by what Jesus did for us to be saved and believing that in our hearts.

A couple verses of many on this topic -

Titus 3:4-7 AMP -

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Eph 2:8-9 AMP -

For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation].

I agree with what you say here. What you say here is different from what you said in your previous post.

I don't follow but thats OK it is not the first time I missed the point. Seems as I get older this gets more frequent, according to my wife.

[temporal1]

There is God created mystery and unknowing, now, just as throughout scriptures.

(For me) Jesus best models and explains FAITH, and its importance, through Thomas/Didymus. It’s just the best.
Thomas is palpably real to me. He’s-so-human! He could be on this forum. Yet loved, anyway. [The Book of John]

(i believe) all of this applies to the Holy Spirit. There is mystery. Today, as it was in the OT and NT.
The Holy Spirit dumbfounds and confounds. He cannot be contained.

Remember Mary. Eek. What an experience.

Deception is possible! Sometimes with horrifying results.
Seek Truth, obedience, submission, God’s will, not our own, God’s time, not our own; fear human reasoning.
Pray for the HS to protect and guide. Every moment of every day.

[silentreader]

Am I currently resting on Jesus as the payment for my sin or am I relying on my own performance in being fully obedient?

This seems like clarifying something on behalf of God, that God did not feel a need to clarify in his Word.

We are told to believe, repent, obey, be baptized, call on the name of the Lord, etc.
I don't find what you say in the Word of God.

I believe that there is a basic embracing of the truth about Jesus required for salvation and this is a life changing, new birth into a new life in Christ. New desires are put within us to want to follow Jesus. This new desire put there by Jesus is required to have eternal life. When it comes to our performance as born again believers we will be judged someday on our performance at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Our works will be tested by fire and rewards given out on the quality of our performance. These works will either stand the test of fire and merit reward or they will just be burnt up.

Some people believe they can save themselves by their religious acts as was the case of the Pharisees in Jesus days on earth. Jesus pointed out to them their need was a changed heart to know how to love God and others. They needed to be born of the Spirit. Similar type of people are in our world today that are keen to do good works and are not trusting on what Jesus did to save them. When truly born again, good works will follow but we are not saved by our perfect obedience. We are saved by what Jesus did for us to be saved and believing that in our hearts.

A couple verses of many on this topic -

Titus 3:4-7 AMP -

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Eph 2:8-9 AMP -

For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation].

Note that the Ephesians quote is incomplete without v.10

Ephesians 2:8-10
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;

9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

Ephesians 2:8-10
Amplified Bible
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; 9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation]. 10 For we are His workmanship [His own master work, a work of art], created in Christ Jesus [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, ready to be used] for good works, which God prepared [for us] beforehand [taking paths which He set], so that we would walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us].

Ephesians 2:8-10
Legacy Standard Bible
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

And the Titus quote points back to what has gone before

Titus 3:1-7
Legacy Standard Bible
Be Ready for Every Good Work
3 Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable, considerate, demonstrating all gentleness to all men. 3 For we ourselves also once were foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, despicable, hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and affection of God our Savior appeared, 5 He saved us, not by works which we did in righteousness, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:1-7
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
3 Remind people to be submissive to [their] magistrates and authorities, to be obedient, to be prepared and willing to do any upright and honorable work,

2 To slander or abuse or speak evil of no one, to avoid being contentious, to be forbearing (yielding, gentle, and conciliatory), and to show unqualified courtesy toward everybody.

3 For we also were once thoughtless and senseless, obstinate and disobedient, deluded and misled; [we too were once] slaves to all sorts of cravings and pleasures, wasting our days in malice and jealousy and envy, hateful (hated, detestable) and hating one another.

4 But when the goodness and loving-kindness of God our Savior to man [as man] appeared,

5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

6 Which He poured out [so] richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.

7 [And He did it in order] that we might be justified by His grace (by His favor, wholly undeserved), [that we might be acknowledged and counted as conformed to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action], and that we might become heirs of eternal life according to [our] hope.

Titus 3:1-7
Amplified Bible
Godly Living
3 Remind people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready and willing to do good, 2 to slander or abuse no one, to be kind and conciliatory and gentle, showing unqualified consideration and courtesy toward everyone. 3 For we too once were foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various sinful desires and pleasures, spending and wasting our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared [in human form as the Man, Jesus Christ], 5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His own compassion and mercy, by the cleansing of the new birth (spiritual transformation, regeneration) and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that we would be justified [made free of the guilt of sin] by His [compassionate, undeserved] grace, and that we would be [acknowledged as acceptable to Him and] made heirs of eternal life [actually experiencing it] according to our hope (His guarantee).

[Sudsy]

This seems like clarifying something on behalf of God, that God did not feel a need to clarify in his Word.

We are told to believe, repent, obey, be baptized, call on the name of the Lord, etc.
I don't find what you say in the Word of God.

I believe that there is a basic embracing of the truth about Jesus required for salvation and this is a life changing, new birth into a new life in Christ. New desires are put within us to want to follow Jesus. This new desire put there by Jesus is required to have eternal life. When it comes to our performance as born again believers we will be judged someday on our performance at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Our works will be tested by fire and rewards given out on the quality of our performance. These works will either stand the test of fire and merit reward or they will just be burnt up.

Some people believe they can save themselves by their religious acts as was the case of the Pharisees in Jesus days on earth. Jesus pointed out to them their need was a changed heart to know how to love God and others. They needed to be born of the Spirit. Similar type of people are in our world today that are keen to do good works and are not trusting on what Jesus did to save them. When truly born again, good works will follow but we are not saved by our perfect obedience. We are saved by what Jesus did for us to be saved and believing that in our hearts.

A couple verses of many on this topic -

Titus 3:4-7 AMP -

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Eph 2:8-9 AMP -

For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation].

Note that the Ephesians quote is incomplete without v.10

Ephesians 2:8-10
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
8 For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;

9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

10 For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].

Ephesians 2:8-10
Amplified Bible
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; 9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation]. 10 For we are His workmanship [His own master work, a work of art], created in Christ Jesus [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, ready to be used] for good works, which God prepared [for us] beforehand [taking paths which He set], so that we would walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us].

Ephesians 2:8-10
Legacy Standard Bible
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

And the Titus quote points back to what has gone before

Titus 3:1-7
Legacy Standard Bible
Be Ready for Every Good Work
3 Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable, considerate, demonstrating all gentleness to all men. 3 For we ourselves also once were foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, despicable, hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and affection of God our Savior appeared, 5 He saved us, not by works which we did in righteousness, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that having been justified by His grace, we would become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Titus 3:1-7
Amplified Bible, Classic Edition
3 Remind people to be submissive to [their] magistrates and authorities, to be obedient, to be prepared and willing to do any upright and honorable work,

2 To slander or abuse or speak evil of no one, to avoid being contentious, to be forbearing (yielding, gentle, and conciliatory), and to show unqualified courtesy toward everybody.

3 For we also were once thoughtless and senseless, obstinate and disobedient, deluded and misled; [we too were once] slaves to all sorts of cravings and pleasures, wasting our days in malice and jealousy and envy, hateful (hated, detestable) and hating one another.

4 But when the goodness and loving-kindness of God our Savior to man [as man] appeared,

5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

6 Which He poured out [so] richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.

7 [And He did it in order] that we might be justified by His grace (by His favor, wholly undeserved), [that we might be acknowledged and counted as conformed to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action], and that we might become heirs of eternal life according to [our] hope.

Titus 3:1-7
Amplified Bible
Godly Living
3 Remind people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready and willing to do good, 2 to slander or abuse no one, to be kind and conciliatory and gentle, showing unqualified consideration and courtesy toward everyone. 3 For we too once were foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various sinful desires and pleasures, spending and wasting our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4 But when the goodness and kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared [in human form as the Man, Jesus Christ], 5 He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His own compassion and mercy, by the cleansing of the new birth (spiritual transformation, regeneration) and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that we would be justified [made free of the guilt of sin] by His [compassionate, undeserved] grace, and that we would be [acknowledged as acceptable to Him and] made heirs of eternal life [actually experiencing it] according to our hope (His guarantee).

Sorry, I'm missing the point you are making. Some days my brain is foggier than others. I am not at all suggesting obedience is unnecessary but rather our perfect obedience is unnecessary for salvation as our salvation depends on Christ's perfect obedience on our behalf. We continue to fail to a degree to be 100% obedient yet if we are born again we will desire and strive to be obedient to how the Holy Spirit leads us. So, I don't need to fear that I might lose my salvation due to some area I have not yet learned to be obedient.