Atheists

[AndersonD]

Evolution is a great topic. Ask him to provide any evidence for evolution. There is none - so it takes faith to believe it. The look on atheists faces that I have said that to is priceless because they are so convinced they need proof when evolution doesn’t have any.
When I was an atheist and evolutionist and first found out there is no proof for evolution it totally shook me and lead me to consider God.

"Proof" is not a scientific concept. Neither is faith.

What we do have is absolutely enormous amount of scientific evidence to support the idea that life on earth changes over time. From the ancient fossil record to modern genome sequencing. And the theory of evolution by natural selection remains the best scientific explanation for how biological change happens. More recent discoveries in molecular genetics such as the process and frequency of gene mutations and the ability to sequence entire genomes have only strengthened Darwin's theories. Despite the fact that the science of modern genetics did not yet exist during his time.

Nevertheless, the best way to make your name in science is to disrupt and overturn existing theories and propose new ones. Copernicus, Newton, Lavoisier, Darwin, Pasteur, Einstein, Plank, Wegener, etc. They are all famous for upsetting existing theories and taking science in new directions. So any scientist who managed to invalidate the theory of evolution by natural selection and come up with something new that better explains the evidence? He or she would instantly be world famous.

May I suggest Ken's post be moved to a different thread? I want to gather input on how to relate to atheists, not enter a creation vs evolution debate.

[NedFlanders]

Evolution is a great topic. Ask him to provide any evidence for evolution. There is none - so it takes faith to believe it. The look on atheists faces that I have said that to is priceless because they are so convinced they need proof when evolution doesn’t have any.
When I was an atheist and evolutionist and first found out there is no proof for evolution it totally shook me and lead me to consider God.

Our discussions mostly center around evolution but he usually turns the tables and ask me where God is. No one has ever seen him...I referenced the wind...we see the effects, but not the wind. That was a very laughable idea!

More statements: Morality is determined by society, e.g. happiest day of his life was when he lost his virginity at 18, marriage is antiquated, what is wrong w pornography, go ahead and use expletives. I am a simple minded Christian...just like his Catholic mom. And remember, all of love has a selfish motive.

For something to be considered scientific fact it has to pass three tests. It has to be testable, repeatable and observable.
You can’t test evolution in the sense of getting a fish to turn into a cat or anything other than a fish because micro-evolution doesn’t actually mutate any DNA to enable a fish to become something else. And since it takes time it obviously isn’t repeatable or observable(and again in the sense of one creature turning into another).

I share this because he wants to see facts. I’ve asked atheists before if they loved their mom? And then I quickly reply, I don’t believe you. Show me some facts. Gets them think about love - where you can get them to reconsider there ideas on what love is it will go a long way.

Why is their similar morality traits or similar consciences of people of different backgrounds or cultures? Why does most think death is sad?

Pornography. What is the value of a person? Is using a person for your own pleasure how a person wants their own family to be treated? And yeah maybe that person wants to be used but does the user want better fulfillment in life for that person? Why do we have guilt?

Helping a person find Christ relates much to opening their minds to a bigger perspective. If you focus on their point they will not be convinced. So I’ve seen the most success in challenging facts and how people define things to get them to second guess their own beliefs. It’s like they have a stack of cards and they focus on the top little thing that they are convinced of that is untouchable but if you can dig deeper than they have and find something that makes them question the foundation it can eventually crumble their high tower.

Like was mentioned early that takes hard studying and digging.

[temporal1]

P.2:

My colleague at work is an atheist. Anyone have suggestions how to converse about God? I feel like I am casting my pearls before swine. He's stunned that I am a creationist, believe in an afterlife, don't swear, etc.. and anyone who believes in God is using him as their crutch. To believe in God is to be lazy and simple minded.

Pray .. .. Ask God for questions to share with him. Wait expectantly.

P.2:

AndersonD:
.. If a person chooses Christianity that is the work of the Spirit.

^^This is it.
No matter words or actions, no matter “careful” dedicated study (these things can be marvelous) .. realize, the Holy Spirit determines timing, and outcomes.

Pray for the HS to touch your friend, you might even share this Truth, that, no matter how profound+thorough his human reasoning is, unless+until he is touched by the HS, he will not see. It’s not possible.

He may not immediately pray for the HS, he’ll probably scoff and dismiss, however, life “has a way” of presenting reality that makes “every knee bow,” at that time he might remember your wise advice and reach out for real answers. That’s the work of the Spirit.

We are impatient, we want to see tangible results in the moment. Now!
The HS determines timing and outcomes. We are to plant the seeds, the Lord determines the harvest. Isaiah 55:11 https://biblehub.com/isaiah/55-11.htm

What believers do+say is very important. Believers have to forget are wise to forget about instant gratification.

[Sudsy]

Sudsy, please, do a study of the word Gospel without anything but scripture as a reference. Try to give up any ideas of what the Gospel is and only believe what the scripture says.

The only answer in Scripture is that Christ only ever referred to the kingdom of God when mentioning the Gospel.

The save me Gospel you preach is the worst way to ever share with an atheist!!!!

I will have to disagree with you on this and suggest you read 1 Cor 15 where Paul explains the Gospel that saves us. I think I will stick with what the scripture says is 'the Gospel that saves us'.

[Sudsy]

I came from more of an evangelical background so my approach is not so much to wait until someone shows an interest in the Gospel but rather to get them to consider the Gospel by asking them for permission to share what the Gospel, good news, is really about. Salvation is about being saved from the penalty of sin (eternal death), the power of sin (ability to live as God wants us to) and the presence of sin (someday in heaven live from the very presence of sin). I like the Romans Road series of scripture verses as that is what was used when I became a believer.

As was mentioned pray that they will have ears to hear and their spiritual eyes be opened to understanding the Gospel. Salvation is through the work of the Holy Spirit to convict us that we are sinners and we need a Saviour from the effects of sin on us.

The soul winners (those who have success at leading people to Christ), in my experience, have been those who are eager and ready to share their faith and look for every opportunity to do so. My father was an example of such. I have attended various 'soul winning' courses during my life and some were very confrontational. For instance, 'The Way of the Master' approach we used in door-to-door evangelism promoted by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. I tried this approach and although I don't follow the whole method, the initial question either opened the door to more conversation or, at times, got the door shut in our face and we moved on.

But ask God to lead you to have the best way to share the Gospel as He alone knows the hindrances to those we speak to.

Although I agree our lives are a testimony of what God can do in and through us, I have witnessed new converts (with many imperfections) leading people to Christ. Some people are afraid that their failings as Christians are too much to share the Gospel. Their focus is then too much on themselves and not the only perfect one, Jesus. Our learning to live like Jesus is a life journey of learning and being born again is just the beginning of this journey. Satan tries to hinder us by reminding us of our shortcomings as perfect Christ followers. One of his tricks to keep us quiet about the Gospel.

Don't be lead astray by those who promote living the life without words as Romans 10:13 says that words are necessary. How many of us here know that we have led anyone to Christ just by our life without words ?

Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

Your dad had a profound effect on your life. Anyway, I didn't grow up in a home that believed in "witnessing to the lost" verbally. So passing out tracts or putting up signs is taboo and something I don't envision myself doing. Instead, my context is inviting the marginalized including those in the church for dinners or supporting monetarily. I also am uncomfortable using the term "soul winner". If a person chooses Christianity that is the work of the Spirit.

So, how is this method working ?

I agree that it is the work of the Holy Spirit and I also believe what Romans 10:13,14 says -

for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

We can do all kinds of good deeds but the Gospel requires words to go along with these good deeds. In our area we have many Mennonite churches of sorts and as far as good deeds is concerned, they lead the way. Often their pictures are in our local newspaper and the good deeds they are involved in. However, are their churches seeing new converts to Christ and are they reaching those outside their ethnic groups ? Not that can be noticed. So what is missing ? I believe it is the Gospel message about being born again. They do display a religion of good deeds and this is also happening with the Salvation Army also. But they seem to be presenting another gospel other than that which the early church preached.

[Soloist]

Sudsy, please, do a study of the word Gospel without anything but scripture as a reference. Try to give up any ideas of what the Gospel is and only believe what the scripture says.

The only answer in Scripture is that Christ only ever referred to the kingdom of God when mentioning the Gospel.

The save me Gospel you preach is the worst way to ever share with an atheist!!!!

I will have to disagree with you on this and suggest you read 1 Cor 15 where Paul explains the Gospel that saves us. I think I will stick with what the scripture says is 'the Gospel that saves us'.

you seem to be very selective on what you obey that Paul wrote

Gal 2:14  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

From the passage you quote, how is this truth revealed? If what you quote is the gospel.
I think that you are missing what the gospel actually is. Yes the gospel is that Jesus came died for our sins and rose again, but that is not all the gospel. Jesus did not spend three years teaching us completely for no point. His teachings are meant to be lived out as I quoted in a separate section from John. We are meant to follow His example. Yes we’re not perfect, and John clearly told us we have an advocate. Yet someone who just disobeys teachings of Jesus with knowledge, they will not inherit the kingdom of God.
You do a disservice by teaching only a part of the gospel.
I would advocate that you study Galatians, pay special attention to his conclusion in chapter 5 and 6. We are not under the law, but we walk after the spirit and not after the flesh. Do you have the works of the flesh in you?

[NedFlanders]

Sudsy, please, do a study of the word Gospel without anything but scripture as a reference. Try to give up any ideas of what the Gospel is and only believe what the scripture says.

The only answer in Scripture is that Christ only ever referred to the kingdom of God when mentioning the Gospel.

The save me Gospel you preach is the worst way to ever share with an atheist!!!!

I will have to disagree with you on this and suggest you read 1 Cor 15 where Paul explains the Gospel that saves us. I think I will stick with what the scripture says is 'the Gospel that saves us'.

So in other words you are unwilling to do a Bible study on the word Gospel to see how scripture uses the word!

Wow!

The Word inspired by the Holy Spirit and you would rather use an incomplete understanding of 1 Cor 15 where if your eyes are open to see (like it says in John 3) you will notice in full context the kingdom of God is even mentioned in 1 Cor 15…

I dare say this salvation Gospel and Romans Road is what Paul may have been talking about in Galatians 1…

[Sudsy]

Sudsy, please, do a study of the word Gospel without anything but scripture as a reference. Try to give up any ideas of what the Gospel is and only believe what the scripture says.

The only answer in Scripture is that Christ only ever referred to the kingdom of God when mentioning the Gospel.

The save me Gospel you preach is the worst way to ever share with an atheist!!!!

I will have to disagree with you on this and suggest you read 1 Cor 15 where Paul explains the Gospel that saves us. I think I will stick with what the scripture says is 'the Gospel that saves us'.

you seem to be very selective on what you obey that Paul wrote

Gal 2:14  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

From the passage you quote, how is this truth revealed? If what you quote is the gospel.
I think that you are missing what the gospel actually is. Yes the gospel is that Jesus came died for our sins and rose again, but that is not all the gospel. Jesus did not spend three years teaching us completely for no point. His teachings are meant to be lived out as I quoted in a separate section from John. We are meant to follow His example. Yes we’re not perfect, and John clearly told us we have an advocate. Yet someone who just disobeys teachings of Jesus with knowledge, they will not inherit the kingdom of God.
You do a disservice by teaching only a part of the gospel.
I would advocate that you study Galatians, pay special attention to his conclusion in chapter 5 and 6. We are not under the law, but we walk after the spirit and not after the flesh. Do you have the works of the flesh in you?

Paul called the 1 Cor 15 description of the Gospel to be the Gospel that saves us - 'By this gospel you are saved'. What he goes on to outline is what he calls of 'first importance' when talking about this Gospel. One cannot be saved without believing these essentials.

I didn't say that 1 Cor 15 was 'all the gospel'. The gospel I push back on is one that is not a born again Gospel that only occurs when one embraces what Paul says is 'of first importance' in the 'Gospel that saves us'. This is essential to being born of the Spirit as it is our sin issue that is of first importance to be dealt with. Jesus came and did His work of salvation and in believing in Him and what He did to saves us from our sins. He then begins a work in the new convert to becoming more sanctified/holy as we walk with Him.

With regard to your question - 'Do you have the works of the flesh in you?' Yes and so do you. Until we die or the Lord returns we will do battle with our flesh. But as we battle, we have not lost our salvation unless we completely disown Him as our Lord and Saviour. I think both of us have obvious occurrences on this forum of giving way to the flesh.

[NedFlanders]

I will have to disagree with you on this and suggest you read 1 Cor 15 where Paul explains the Gospel that saves us. I think I will stick with what the scripture says is 'the Gospel that saves us'.

you seem to be very selective on what you obey that Paul wrote

Gal 2:14  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

From the passage you quote, how is this truth revealed? If what you quote is the gospel.
I think that you are missing what the gospel actually is. Yes the gospel is that Jesus came died for our sins and rose again, but that is not all the gospel. Jesus did not spend three years teaching us completely for no point. His teachings are meant to be lived out as I quoted in a separate section from John. We are meant to follow His example. Yes we’re not perfect, and John clearly told us we have an advocate. Yet someone who just disobeys teachings of Jesus with knowledge, they will not inherit the kingdom of God.
You do a disservice by teaching only a part of the gospel.
I would advocate that you study Galatians, pay special attention to his conclusion in chapter 5 and 6. We are not under the law, but we walk after the spirit and not after the flesh. Do you have the works of the flesh in you?

Paul called the 1 Cor 15 description of the Gospel to be the Gospel that saves us - 'By this gospel you are saved'. What he goes on to outline is what he calls of 'first importance' when talking about this Gospel. One cannot be saved without believing these essentials.

I didn't say that 1 Cor 15 was 'all the gospel'. The gospel I push back on is one that is not a born again Gospel that only occurs when one embraces what Paul says is 'of first importance' in the 'Gospel that saves us'. This is essential to being born of the Spirit as it is our sin issue that is of first importance to be dealt with. Jesus came and did His work of salvation and in believing in Him and what He did to saves us from our sins. He then begins a work in the new convert to becoming more sanctified/holy as we walk with Him.

With regard to your question - 'Do you have the works of the flesh in you?' Yes and so do you. Until we die or the Lord returns we will do battle with our flesh. But as we battle, we have not lost our salvation unless we completely disown Him as our Lord and Saviour. I think both of us have obvious occurrences on this forum of giving way to the flesh.

How about a word study on “born again”?

What you will find is again - the kingdom of God!!

[Sudsy]

Here is a link you might find helpful - https://www.dare2share.org/worldviews/atheists/