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Sudsy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:25 pm John you posted 'So what happens to a Christian that eats pork? They have high blood pressure, or get trichinosis.' Here is something that would seem to contradict that - entitled - 'World's oldest woman, 116, eats bacon daily' -
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /73444660/

Anyway, John, I keep thinking that if your interpretations regarding Paul are correct and most Christians are living according to lies that he wrote, that he said were given him by the Lord, then the number of those who will go to heaven will be few and could be counted by any person. However, scripture says this is not true and it will be a number that no man can count. Rev 7:9. I would say this to some 'conservative' Christian groups also that point to the scripture that says 'few there be that find it' and see themselves as that chosen few.

I chose to believe that God truly is willing that none should persish and that He will make a way for all to be saved. He did that already for OT people when He preached to them during His death and resurrection. This salvation is not based on works of righteousness that we have done but rather fully trusting on what He did, in His mercy toward us, to save us. Not all will be saved as we still have free will but it is my belief that it will not just be those who have understood everything and lived by the Bible correctly that will be saved. Others chose to understand God differently on this.

I think I will check out now on this thread as I'm not following some of the points being made here (old age perhaps). Whatever you chose to believe about the OT, I believe what is of primary importance is believing what Jesus did to give us eternal life and I also believe He knows all our struggles to interpret scripture correctly. I'm trusting that this core belief I'm embracing will save me.

Have a nice day and keep seeking to know more about Him.

JohnHurt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:56 am And my 3rd question is this: Dispensationalism, from what I understand, negates many of the teachings of Christ as being in a "prior" dispensation which makes them no longer valid, and so we must rely on the doctrines of men that came after Christ.

ohio jones wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:45 pm

JohnHurt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:56 am And my 3rd question is this: Dispensationalism, from what I understand, negates many of the teachings of Christ as being in a "prior" dispensation which makes them no longer valid, and so we must rely on the doctrines of men that came after Christ.

Or they negate the rest of the teachings of Christ as belonging to a future dispensation. And that we are living in some sort of parentheses where the teachings of Christ do not apply. Which is really bizarre. Most of the Mennonites who lean toward dispensationalism (not all do, of course) will reject that part of the package.

Even though I don't agree with your rejection of Paul, at least you are not rejecting Christ, or elevating Paul above Christ. You will not go wrong following His teachings.

Nomad wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:19 pm I've heard very few who would state that Jesus teachings are irrelevant...even among those who are loud and proud dispensationalist.

...the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church. These are found in the Epistles.

ohio jones wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:27 pm

Nomad wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:19 pm I've heard very few who would state that Jesus teachings are irrelevant...even among those who are loud and proud dispensationalist.

Scofield Reference Notes, Matthew 5:2

...the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church. These are found in the Epistles.

ohio jones wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:27 pm

Nomad wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:19 pm I've heard very few who would state that Jesus teachings are irrelevant...even among those who are loud and proud dispensationalist.

Scofield Reference Notes, Matthew 5:2

...the Sermon on the Mount in its primary application gives neither the privilege nor the duty of the Church. These are found in the Epistles.

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:56 pm

Sudsy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:25 pm John you posted 'So what happens to a Christian that eats pork? They have high blood pressure, or get trichinosis.' Here is something that would seem to contradict that - entitled - 'World's oldest woman, 116, eats bacon daily' -
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /73444660/

Anyway, John, I keep thinking that if your interpretations regarding Paul are correct and most Christians are living according to lies that he wrote, that he said were given him by the Lord, then the number of those who will go to heaven will be few and could be counted by any person. However, scripture says this is not true and it will be a number that no man can count. Rev 7:9. I would say this to some 'conservative' Christian groups also that point to the scripture that says 'few there be that find it' and see themselves as that chosen few.

I chose to believe that God truly is willing that none should persish and that He will make a way for all to be saved. He did that already for OT people when He preached to them during His death and resurrection. This salvation is not based on works of righteousness that we have done but rather fully trusting on what He did, in His mercy toward us, to save us. Not all will be saved as we still have free will but it is my belief that it will not just be those who have understood everything and lived by the Bible correctly that will be saved. Others chose to understand God differently on this.

I think I will check out now on this thread as I'm not following some of the points being made here (old age perhaps). Whatever you chose to believe about the OT, I believe what is of primary importance is believing what Jesus did to give us eternal life and I also believe He knows all our struggles to interpret scripture correctly. I'm trusting that this core belief I'm embracing will save me.

Have a nice day and keep seeking to know more about Him.

That's interesting. Do you think there are those in that heavenly multitude who did not walk in the "way that leads to life"?

Sudsy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:54 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:56 pm

Sudsy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:25 pm John you posted 'So what happens to a Christian that eats pork? They have high blood pressure, or get trichinosis.' Here is something that would seem to contradict that - entitled - 'World's oldest woman, 116, eats bacon daily' -
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /73444660/

Anyway, John, I keep thinking that if your interpretations regarding Paul are correct and most Christians are living according to lies that he wrote, that he said were given him by the Lord, then the number of those who will go to heaven will be few and could be counted by any person. However, scripture says this is not true and it will be a number that no man can count. Rev 7:9. I would say this to some 'conservative' Christian groups also that point to the scripture that says 'few there be that find it' and see themselves as that chosen few.

I chose to believe that God truly is willing that none should persish and that He will make a way for all to be saved. He did that already for OT people when He preached to them during His death and resurrection. This salvation is not based on works of righteousness that we have done but rather fully trusting on what He did, in His mercy toward us, to save us. Not all will be saved as we still have free will but it is my belief that it will not just be those who have understood everything and lived by the Bible correctly that will be saved. Others chose to understand God differently on this.

I think I will check out now on this thread as I'm not following some of the points being made here (old age perhaps). Whatever you chose to believe about the OT, I believe what is of primary importance is believing what Jesus did to give us eternal life and I also believe He knows all our struggles to interpret scripture correctly. I'm trusting that this core belief I'm embracing will save me.

Have a nice day and keep seeking to know more about Him.

That's interesting. Do you think there are those in that heavenly multitude who did not walk in the "way that leads to life"?

No. I believe the "way that leads to life" is believing in what Jesus did to give us the gift of eternal life. This belief is life changing and gives us the desire to walk in His ways. It is called being 'born again'. Salvation cannot be earned by anything we do on earth as it is a gift freely given by a Savior who willingly left heaven to come to earth and die an unjust death on our accord. As far as our performance as true believers, our walk, this will be used to determine our rewards.

I realize there are those who believe they need to walk in certain ways of obedience besides believing in Jesus for their salvation and I wonder how they can ever have a sense of being eternally secure when they all fail to live perfect obedient lives. I believe we can be sure we are saved by believing on what Jesus did to save us and not live lives in fear that due to our failings we still might not make it. I was raised in that kind of fear but no longer. My faith is based on what Jesus did and not how perfect of a saint I am.

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:04 pm

Sudsy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 7:54 pm

ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:56 pm
That's interesting. Do you think there are those in that heavenly multitude who did not walk in the "way that leads to life"?

No. I believe the "way that leads to life" is believing in what Jesus did to give us the gift of eternal life. This belief is life changing and gives us the desire to walk in His ways. It is called being 'born again'. Salvation cannot be earned by anything we do on earth as it is a gift freely given by a Savior who willingly left heaven to come to earth and die an unjust death on our accord. As far as our performance as true believers, our walk, this will be used to determine our rewards.

I realize there are those who believe they need to walk in certain ways of obedience besides believing in Jesus for their salvation and I wonder how they can ever have a sense of being eternally secure when they all fail to live perfect obedient lives. I believe we can be sure we are saved by believing on what Jesus did to save us and not live lives in fear that due to our failings we still might not make it. I was raised in that kind of fear but no longer. My faith is based on what Jesus did and not how perfect of a saint I am.

Jesus said that the way that leads to life is narrow, and that few will find it. I'm inclined to accept Him at his word.