Dispensationalism, John Darby, etc.

[Ernie]

A thread to discuss... Dispensationalism, John Darby, etc... and how this compares with other millenialist and non-millenialist views over the centuries.

Please keep partisan comments/debates out of this thread - avoid comments that reflect negatively on either right-leaning or left leaning political persuasions. Please keep this thread focused on the topic.

[Ernie]

Over the last 75 years, many people influenced by Dispensationalist teachers, have found all sorts of verses in the Bible that seem to them to find fulfillment in events happening in the Mideast and how countries around the world respond to these events. Every decade or so, they need to come up with a new map of prophecy as events in the Mideast either don't happen according to prediction or don't seem to fit the scriptural narrative. The teachers then scrap their former outline and come up with a new outline or time table.

In my youth there was one such time period. I listened to Isaac Sensenig as he explained that "we need to keep coming back to the drawing board". No matter that he had spent hundreds or thousands of hours making up his former outlines, fulfillments, and predictions and that his listeners had spent even more hours devouring his narrative. But like those who predict the date for the Lord's return, folks like Sensenig just scrapped some of their previous work and went back to the drawing board, and many of their followers continued to support their new narratives.

Can anybody point me to a list of these "dispensationalist fulfillments" that have needed readjusting over the last 75 years, as events in the Middle East shift the narrative?

[Neto]

This is not an answer to your main question, but the disciples were also very interested in "time-lines". When Jesus told them about the things that would happen before His return (Matthew 24, etc), they asked him "When will these things come about?" Elsewhere, Jesus said "But will I find faith on the earth?"

[Josh]

Can anybody point me to a list of these "dispensationalist fulfillments" that have needed readjusting over the last 75 years, as events in the Middle East shift the narrative?

Hal Lindsey, Samel Kirban, and Johnathan Cahn are just a few that come to mind.

[silentreader]

Over the last 75 years, many people influenced by Dispensationalist teachers, have found all sorts of verses in the Bible that seem to them to find fulfillment in events happening in the Mideast and how countries around the world respond to these events. Every decade or so, they need to come up with a new map of prophecy as events in the Mideast either don't happen according to prediction or don't seem to fit the scriptural narrative. The teachers then scrap their former outline and come up with a new outline or time table.

In my youth there was one such time period. I listened to Isaac Sensenig as he explained that "we need to keep coming back to the drawing board". No matter that he had spent hundreds or thousands of hours making up his former outlines, fulfillments, and predictions and that his listeners had spent even more hours devouring his narrative. But like those who predict the date for the Lord's return, folks like Sensenig just scrapped some of their previous work and went back to the drawing board, and many of their followers continued to support their new narratives.

Can anybody point me to a list of these "dispensationalist fulfillments" that have needed readjusting over the last 75 years, as events in the Middle East shift the narrative?

On the flip side of that, I remember quite clearly when the Wall came down and the USSR began to disintegrate, an amillenialist preacher friend of mine sneeringly (I tried to find a better term but was unable) said something to the effect that "There goes any possibility that Russia will be an end time power in the Middle East as the Dispensationalist pre-millenialists teach".

[Neto]

75 years conveniently takes you right back to 1948. Go on back another 25 years, and you'll see a different type of "going back to the drawing board". I first became interested in "end time prophecy" and the book of the Revelation in the early 70's. My Dad had studied at two different Bible institutes (after 2 years at a Mennonite Brethren HS, Corn Bible Academy), and all of his books were from before 1948. I pulled them down off of his shelf and began studying them. The main thing that struck me was how before the 40's, none of these teachers/authors even considered the possibility that Israel would become a nation again, aside from through the return of the Messiah. So take it all with a grain of salt. It'll all change again.

(There was a well known author in the early 70's, and he published a book about the USSR as Gog or Magog in about 1990. Anyway, it came out just before the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was kinda' funny, really, but I still felt sorry for the guy. I think his last name started with a 'C', but I cannot remember what it was.)

[PeterG]

You might enjoy this podcast episode about dispensationalism.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/e ... 0616457068

[Swiss Bro]

I‘m pretty much a full blown Darby style dispensationalist.

Recently heard a Brethren teacher talk about Zephanjah 2.4

4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up.

The Ashkelon, Asdod and Ekron bits were fulfilled in 1948. Gaza, well…

Prophecy in the Scripture is always fulfilled but not always all in a book, chapter or even verse at the same time.

[PeterG]

A couple of years ago I remarked to an older friend (a man in his early 70s who is definitely a premillennialist but maybe not a dispensationalist, I'm not sure) that I don't hear nearly as much about prophecy being fulfilled in current events as I did growing up 20–30 years ago. He said that enthusiasm has waned as events in the Middle East continue without the return of Christ that many expected would have happened by now.

[Ernie]

Can anybody point me to a list of these "dispensationalist fulfillments" that have needed readjusting over the last 75 years, as events in the Middle East shift the narrative?

Hal Lindsey, Samel Kirban, and Johnathan Cahn are just a few that come to mind.

I'm looking for actual examples of verses that people matched with certain events, only to need to rearrange verses and find other verses as events played out differently.