Heirbyadoption wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:35 pm
AndersonD wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:31 amWhere are you, Heir? May I ask if this is an exciting time for you with the current events in Israel? Do the GB's keep a pulse on what is occurring in Israel?
It seems worth reiterating at this point that not all of us pre-mill types are wholesale Dispensationalists, nor do we all pin all of our hopes and dreams on particular dates and exactly assumed timeline, even if we see a chronological order suggested in Scripture.
There have been some unfortunate generalizations and misrepresentations of various positions in a couple previous posts in this thread. Probably the one fundamental one I would note is the idea that "Dispensationalists" (and we have admittedly had our share among our particular strain of Plain folk) do NOT necessarily discount the teachings of Jesus as having been given under the Old Covenant (as opposed to the teachings of Paul under the New Covenant) - that would be "Hyper-Dispensationalists". Even from the Dispensationalist-leaning ministers I grew up under in our Brethren groups, none ever went to the "Hyper" extreme. And you have to bear in mind, we ARE only half-breed Anabaptists after all, lol. But that's probably a post in its own right - it just seemed worth pointing out that there is indeed a difference in Ds & HyperDs. We also had our share of Replacement Theology preachers in the midwest/east, though most/all of that thinking would would have stayed with the Old Conference (OGBBC) folks after we (OGBBC-NC) got the boot or even drifted on into the new ultra-conservative bunch (OGBC) which pulled out of OC two years ago.
AndersonD (are we acquainted IRL, btw?) - all of history is exciting to me. Are the currents events in Israel exciting to me? As I age, they're probably more sobering than exciting, perhaps, along with all the various posturings and conflict potentials around the world as well, not just Israel. Having said that, yes - a lot of our folks have long kept, and continue to keep, an eye on what happens specifically in Israel or in connection with it. While we don't necessarily set dates or concretely ascribe specific nations or contemporary geo-political entities to specific players in eschatology, we still keep our eyes open.
The other problems that "Dispensationalism" has:
1. The Jews are not "Biblical Israel", because they do not fulfill the prophecies of Israel. The modern "State of Israel" created by the Rothchild Banking empire has nothing to do with the Israel of God. Here is the proof:
a. The Bible says that Christ will rule Israel:
Matthew 2:(6) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
The Jews are not ruled by Christ, and are not Israel. The "State of Israel" is not ruled by Christ and is not Israel. Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9
b. The New Covenant is made with Israel:
Hebrews 8:(8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
The Jews are not under the New Covenant, and are not the "Israel" that God chose. They are the false Israel. Rev 3:9
c. God promised David while Israel was in Palestine that God would create a new home for Israel, outside of Palestine:
2 Sam 7:(10) Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,
And there are many, many other verses that prove the Jews of today who reject Christ are not Israel. Rev 2:9
2. Christ said there is no Rapture of the righteous, only the wicked - the opposite of what Darby teaches.
Matt 13:(40) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
(41) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
(42) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
(43) Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
This is the Kingdom when the wicked are taken and burned, and fulfills Christs promise that "the meek (or self disciplined) shall inherit the earth).
There is no rapture of the righteous.
3. The "Millennium" is is not a literal period of time.
Otherwise, you need a literal "bottomless pit", a literal chain, and a literal key. And the Adversary is some literal reptile creature from the dinosaur age:
Rev 20:(1) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
(2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
This is all "figurative language" and is not reality. And the reality is, there is no 1,000 year reign, it is a symbol.
Darby, Scofield, and all of the rest of these charlatans have us looking at some obscure verse, when we should be following Christ's doctrines, like taking in the stranger, feeding the hungry, and clothing those that are naked. Matt 25:31-46
The "New Testament" Canon was created by Constantine and his wicked priests, like Athanasius.
Adding the books written "after the Gospels" to the NT Canon so that these books are esteemed to be of equal or of more importance than the 4 Gospels - this has splintered the "One Church" that Christ prayed for in the garden. (John 17:21-22) All by design.
If every "New Testament" in the entire world consisted of only Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, then the Church would be "one" in Christ, with Christ as our only teacher and instructor. Matt 23:8,10. Christ said we should teach His doctrines, He never authorized any other teacher. Matt 28:20
And for those of us that hold the 4 gospels to be superior over all other books, we have a completely different religion, the religion "of" Christ, and not a religion "about" Christ that Darby and others have sold us.
Darby is a hireling (John 10:13), and careth not for the sheep. Darby escaped obscurity and made himself "famous" to many by creating a theory that no one had ever seen until the 1850's.
If Dispensationalism is really "from God", then why did God hide it from us for over 1,800 years?
Because it is from man, not God.
"He replaced the teachings of Christ with his own opinions, and gave us a religion based on the doctrines of men."