Baptism in the Catholic Church

[MaxPC]

As a Catholic intellectual once said… pray for a new pope.

Laughter break: it reminds me of an old joke.
A very saintly man who lives a life of caring for the sick and the poor was praying. God said to him, "You have been a good and faithful servant. As a reward, you may ask 3 questions and I will answer them."
The man thought and finally asked these three.

-Will I ever see an end to all of the suffering around me?
God: Yes, but not in your lifetime.

-Will Jesus return?
God: Yes, but not in your lifetime.

-Will there be another Jesuit Pope?
Wait for it ...
...
...
...
...
God said:
"Not in my lifetime."

Serious note: We have had some horrid papacies. We have had some stellar papacies. My perspective is that we appreciate the stellar when we have had a horrid experience.
The Holy Spirit has a way of dealing with it all and occasionally, even gives us a big surprise as in the election of Cardinal Karol Józef Wojtyła - a Cardinal unknown to much of the Catholic world - who took the name of John Paul II.

[Ken]

It appears at this point they are losing control. A whole continent of African bishops are opposed to what he’s doing now. Some of them are Cardinals (some even put there by PF himself) and they will be voting in the next conclave. They will most likely be looking for someone more conservative than PF this time around.

I suspect you are wrong about that. 73% of of the current College of Cardinals have been appointed by Francis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinals ... by_Francis

Following the 2023 consistory, 99 of the cardinal electors had been appointed by Francis, 29 by Pope Benedict XVI, and 9 by Pope John Paul II. Each of Francis' consistories has increased the number of cardinal electors from less than the set limit of 120 to a number higher than 120, as high as 137 in 2023, surpassing the record 135 set by Pope John Paul II in 2001 and 2003. Since 2 June 2023, two-thirds of the cardinal electors have been cardinals created by Francis. The September 2023 consistory increased that to about 73%.

And of those Cardinals eligible to vote in a papal conclave (under age 80) only 14 are from Africa, the bulk of them appointed by Francis, and several who are about to age out which will reduce their numbers even more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_cardinals

So at this point in time, 14 or roughly 10% of the current Papal Conclave are from Africa, Of those 14, only 4 were appointed by John Paul or Benedict and those four are ages 79, 76, 78, and 79 years old, respectively, meaning that they are all on the cusp of aging out of the Papal Conclave that will elect the next pope. Within a year, only one African Cardinal not appointed by Francis will remain on the Papal Conclave and within 4 years, every African Cardinal in the Papal Conclave will be a Francis appointee.

Yikes! I don’t have access to all that data, Quite honestly, I just wanted to try to end that on a positive note. Oh, well.

God really is in control . . . Like Josh said, we can pray!

It is all readily available. I just looked it up.

Look, I don't have the slightest idea what direction the Catholic Church is going to take after Francis. None of us do. But I do know the Vatican insiders are as deft as anyone on the planet in Byzantine political machinations. So they have no doubt thought and planned for succession for a very long time.

I'm just pushing back on the notion that there will be some sort of Conservative revival coming out of Africa. Their numbers are far too small and most of them are Francis' people anyway. And I suspect that the conservative culture war issues of the west are not anywhere near the top of their list of pressing concerns on a continent as vast, diverse, and underdeveloped as Africa.

[Falco Knotwise]

It is all readily available. I just looked it up.

Look, I don't have the slightest idea what direction the Catholic Church is going to take after Francis. None of us do. But I do know the Vatican insiders are as deft as anyone on the planet in Byzantine political machinations. So they have no doubt thought and planned for succession for a very long time.

I'm just pushing back on the notion that there will be some sort of Conservative revival coming out of Africa. Their numbers are far too small and most of them are Francis' people anyway. And I suspect that the conservative culture war issues of the west are not anywhere near the top of their list of pressing concerns on a continent as vast, diverse, and underdeveloped as Africa.

Maybe instead of saying “it appears that . . .” I should have said “Perhaps . . . “ instead. That’s all I really meant. Sorry for my poor choice of words!

[ohio jones]

But I do know the Vatican insiders are as deft as anyone on the planet in Byzantine political machinations.

I would have thought that prize would go to their EO counterparts.

[Ken]

But I do know the Vatican insiders are as deft as anyone on the planet in Byzantine political machinations.

I would have thought that prize would go to their EO counterparts.

Touche...

Although I would argue that the EO is far less political and centralized than the RC church. Today the EO is more or less a loose confederation of equals unlike the top-down structure of the RC church centered on the Vatican and Rome. For example, the patriarch of Constantinople (unlike the pope) has no real authority over the various largely autonomous orthodox church bodies scattered about from Greece to Russia. So in this day and age, it is probably accurate to say that the Romans are far more "Byzantine" than the Byzantines.

[Josh]

On the flip side, the EO world is currently suffering from far less unity, and is probably headed towards a major split in the near future.

[Soloist]

On the flip side, the EO world is currently suffering from far less unity, and is probably headed towards a major split in the near future.

They wouldn’t call it a split though.

[Josh]

On the flip side, the EO world is currently suffering from far less unity, and is probably headed towards a major split in the near future.

They wouldn’t call it a split though.

We should do that. We'll just stop calling our Anabaptist divisions "splits". Problem solved!

[Soloist]

On the flip side, the EO world is currently suffering from far less unity, and is probably headed towards a major split in the near future.

They wouldn’t call it a split though.

We should do that. We'll just stop calling our Anabaptist divisions "splits". Problem solved!

It’s not like the Catholic and the Orthodox have ever been at odds over… facial hair…

[RZehr]

I suppose when a denomination thinks itself the “one true church” it must strongly condemn splits because there cannot be another “true church”. And there isn’t room to allow that another group can leave and not be heretical.

This is a key difference with these churches and your typical Mennonite church. Since we never claim to be the “one true church”, we aren’t under that accompanying pressure to label a splinter group heretical and condemn them. Instead it is situational.