appleman2006 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:29 pm
barnhart wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:05 pm
appleman2006 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:41 pm
Here is a very simple fact that ought to end this subject discussion for anyone that wants to do a simple study of genealogies . Based on simple math it is very likely that the vast majority of the world’s population particularly anyone of European, middle eastern and North African descent trace themselves at lease once to one of the 12 tribes.
Prove me wrong.
I don't think it will end any discussions but I agree with the suggestion that most people with ancestors who lived in Europe in the last 1800 years have Jewish ancestors.
John more or less verified my point with his diagram. And while it is true that for all of us there are many repeats in the first million keep in mind that for each generation from there on it continues to double. The chance that not one of those traces back to Jacob is imo nil.
And so until someone can give me a good answer as to who is included in the promises to Israel I find this whole debate to be missing the point
One way I try to understand all of this, is that Israel is the treasure hidden in a field, and Christ purchased the entire field to obtain the treasure. Matt 13:44. In a few verses prior, Christ tells us that the field is the world. Mt. 13:38. So I understand that Christ died to redeem Israel and opened the way of salvation to the world.
Also:
Isaiah 49:(6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
I believe that the blessings God gave Israel have followed Christianity, and have been a light to the entire world.
If you study history and the Bible, it appears that the Christian Nations have inherited the blessings given to Jacob/Israel, such great agricultural wealth (Gen 27:28), with this passed on to Joseph (Deut 33:13-16). Is it a coincidence that the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, and Ukraine - that these nations are blessed with great agricultural harvest, while at the same time they are under spiritual and physical attack by the Anti-Christ?
2nd Samuel 7:10 tells us that God promised David that He would appoint a new place for Israel, outside of Palestine.
Without going into all of the promises that God gave Israel that are now found in Christianity, you will find few if any of God's promises that are fulfilled only in the Jewish State of Israel.
If you study the rise of Zionism in the late 1800's, many Jews were against it, and saw Judaism as something cultural and NOT racial. But it was the Rothchild banking family that pushed the British government to issue the Balfour Declaration to establish the State of Israel, against the wishes of many Jews of that time, and of all the Palestinian people. Jews and Palestinians had lived in peace in Palestine for many years before the Zionists destroyed that peace forever. And the Zionist now wage war on the Palestinians based on race, which fuels anti-Semitism - against all Jews - worldwide.
Not every Jew believes Zionism or wants war with Palestine, and you can find many "Jews against Zionism" on the internet. The media calls these anti-Zionist Jews "anti-Semitic" - a smear word to keep you from thinking about the real problems.
Zionism is racism according to the UN Resolution 242, yet John Hagee and other pro-Zionist Christian pastors have Christians supporting racist Zionism based on various Bible passages, which they take out of context.
The ironic thing is, since the Palestinian people are descendants of Abraham, through Hagar and Ishmael, they are a Semitic people through the line of Shem, and anyone harming them is therefore "anti-Semitic".
Yet the Ashkenazi Jews take their name from "Ashkenaz", a son of Gomer through Japheth, who was not a descendant of Shem. Gen 10:3.
So it looks like the "non-Semitic" Ashkenazi people may be committing "anti-Semitism" against the Semitic Palestinian people to supposedly stop "anti-Semitism".
Go figure.
We really have to be careful with these "smear words", as these words can override our critical thinking abilities. No one wants to be called a "smear word", and so "in horror", we don't investigate whatever truth is being hidden behind them. So that is where I look first.