The Twelve Tribes in Prophecy

[Valerie]

No matter what, the barbaric ISIS type executions and tapes of even children and the celebration of such in mo way could be defended.
Apparently most haven't seen the horrid footage of children, civilians, elderly taken hostage killed and raped.

Mr. Biden had his barbecue event yesterday- business as usual

What is the Anabaptist prophetic view of the 12 tribes in prophetic Revelation??

[Josh]

No matter what, the barbaric ISIS type executions and tapes of even children and the celebration of such in mo way could be defended.
Apparently most haven't seen the horrid footage of children, civilians, elderly taken hostage killed and raped.

So far, in this conflict more Palestinian children and babies have died than Israeli ones.

Mr. Biden had his barbecue event yesterday- business as usual

What is the Anabaptist prophetic view of the 12 tribes in prophetic Revelation??

The Anabaptist view is that believers shouldn’t be getting involved in things like wars.

[Valerie]

No matter what, the barbaric ISIS type executions and tapes of even children and the celebration of such in mo way could be defended.
Apparently most haven't seen the horrid footage of children, civilians, elderly taken hostage killed and raped.

So far, in this conflict more Palestinian children and babies have died than Israeli ones.

Mr. Biden had his barbecue event yesterday- business as usual

What is the Anabaptist prophetic view of the 12 tribes in prophetic Revelation??

The Anabaptist view is that believers shouldn’t be getting involved in things like wars.

Not sure where you're getting your news about this presently but please share what barbaric civilian murders & rapes of children etc. Israel is doing so I can make an informed evaluation- what source you depending on for news? I DO see the worse atrocities ever carried out by Hammas and paraded & cheered- they have to blur the details as the graphics should not be seen, in the video footage of these horrid attacks.

You did not adequately answer my question, regarding the "Biblical" interpretation of the twelve tribes of Israel in the book of Revelation. I realize you do not represent all of Anabaptism. I know the historic Orthodox interpretation but reading comments here I assumed Anabaptists have some idea I may assume wrongly.

[Ernie]

You did not adequately answer my question, regarding the "Biblical" interpretation of the twelve tribes of Israel in the book of Revelation. I realize you do not represent all of Anabaptism. I know the historic Orthodox interpretation but reading comments here I assumed Anabaptists have some idea I may assume wrongly.

Anabaptists are all over the place when it comes to endtime prophecy, Revelation, and the twelve tribes. I'm not even aware that there is a dominant view, In the 17th and 18th centuries, I think Anabaptists tended to be amillennial. AD Wenger (and others) introduced the teachings of Darby to the Anabaptists in the early 1900's, after studying at Moody.

[Valerie]

You did not adequately answer my question, regarding the "Biblical" interpretation of the twelve tribes of Israel in the book of Revelation. I realize you do not represent all of Anabaptism. I know the historic Orthodox interpretation but reading comments here I assumed Anabaptists have some idea I may assume wrongly.

Anabaptists are all over the place when it comes to endtime prophecy, Revelation, and the twelve tribes. I'm not even aware that there is a dominant view, In the 17th and 18th centuries, I think Anabaptists tended to be amillennial. AD Wenger (and others) introduced the teachings of Darby to the Anabaptists in the early 1900's, after studying at Moody.

Thank you Ernie. I wondered as I can tell by posts in this thread that there is the belief that there's no geographical Israel prophetically speaking & I understand that but then Biblicay & all of a sudden there are thec144,000 from thev12 tribes of Israel that either ARE or ARE NOT Israel just wondered that understanding by Anabaptists.

[ohio jones]

Revelation has just as much to say about "all the tribes of the earth" as it does about the 12 tribes of Israel. And one of those is simply indicating that the names of the tribes are inscribed on the gates of New Jerusalem, not really about the people belonging to the tribes.

After several thousand years it's not possible to identify someone as belonging genetically to one of the original tribes, but of course God knows and can find 144,000 if he wants. I'm quite certain it isn't the JWs.

Note that immediately after listing the 12 tribes (omitting Dan) in Rev. 7, the focus shifts to the "all tribes" in verse 9. Israel is where God starts, not where he stops.

[Heirbyadoption]

Thank you Ernie. I wondered as I can tell by posts in this thread that there is the belief that there's no geographical Israel prophetically speaking & I understand that but then Biblicay & all of a sudden there are thec144,000 from thev12 tribes of Israel that either ARE or ARE NOT Israel just wondered that understanding by Anabaptists.

I would be curious as well, to hear from some of you cradle Anabaptists, regarding the 144,000 - are they typical taught/understood to just be a spiritualized representation through an amillennial lens, and if so, of who or what?

[Bootstrap]

Compare the tribes mentioned in the Revelation to the tribes mentioned in the OT - they are not the same! The Revelation does not mention Dan, it mentions Manasseh (which is not in the Genesis passage):

Revelation 7:4-8 (NIV):

"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000."

Genesis 49 (NIV):

Then Jacob called for his sons and said: “Gather around so I can tell you what will happen to you in days to come.

“Assemble and listen, sons of Jacob;
listen to your father Israel.

Reuben, you are my firstborn,
my might, the first sign of my strength,
excelling in honor, excelling in power.

Simeon and Levi are brothers—
their swords are weapons of violence.

Judah, your brothers will praise you;

Zebulun will live by the seashore
and become a haven for ships;
his border will extend toward Sidon.

Issachar is a rawboned donkey
lying down among the sheep pens.

Dan will provide justice for his people
as one of the tribes of Israel.

Gad will be attacked by a band of raiders,
but he will attack them at their heels.

Asher’s food will be rich;
he will provide delicacies fit for a king.

Naphtali is a doe set free
that bears beautiful fawns.

Joseph is a fruitful vine,
a fruitful vine near a spring,
whose branches climb over a wall.

Benjamin is a ravenous wolf;
in the morning he devours the prey,
in the evening he divides the plunder.”

All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father said to them when he blessed them, giving each the blessing appropriate to him.

[Soloist]

Thank you Ernie. I wondered as I can tell by posts in this thread that there is the belief that there's no geographical Israel prophetically speaking & I understand that but then Biblicay & all of a sudden there are thec144,000 from thev12 tribes of Israel that either ARE or ARE NOT Israel just wondered that understanding by Anabaptists.

I would be curious as well, to hear from some of you cradle Anabaptists, regarding the 144,000 - are they typical taught/understood to just be a spiritualized representation through an amillennial lens, and if so, of who or what?

Wife: i’m not a cradle Anabaptist, but it seems like from our experience at Pilgrim, and this would go for Eastern and the other breakoffs, that there are many who would be pre-TRIB pre-millennials, and they would think it’s literally 12 tribes of Israel that meet the qualifications laid out in those verses. Our church has several that believe like that, and several that don’t, including some of the ministry and people raised pilgrim/eastern. Everyone seems to get along about , and the minister who is most into the end times stuff isn’t dogmatic or rude about it, so it works out.

Premillennial anabaptists don’t believe, at least the ones that I’ve talked to, that simply being a Jew means you’re saved, because they believe you need to follow Jesus, but they do believe that eventually, the Jewish nation on earth at the time will be saved. As for the amillinial Anabaptists that I know, I don’t think they spend a lot of time thinking about it, and I don’t know if there’s one specific belief because it was rarely talked about.

We aren’t sure how it’s going to work in the end, so we’re more or less panmillennials because we figure God will figure it out and we might have some stuff wrong. I would personally lean against the left behind style premillennialism, but I figure that God knows how to do it best, and that I might better understand some of those prophecies later. I don’t think either side believes that we as Christian’s should physically get involved in Israel’s war, other than providing aid and prayers for all affected.

[NedFlanders]

Paul tells us that he is a Jew that is one inwardly. Every believer and follower of Christ is what makes up “Israel” today. But to see this you need to see beyond geographical lines and see the kingdom without borders - the kingdom of God. Israel the nation over in the Middle East is a just another kingdom of this world.