The Twelve Tribes in Prophecy

[silentreader]

Jesus was portrayed as "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah" and as "The Lamb of God that Taketh Away the Sin of the World". The Jews wanted the Lion, but the Lamb had to do its work first. They rejected the Lamb, and lost the Lion as well.
Now they still have to receive the Lamb first, and then we'll see.....

There is nothing to "see". All of the land promises were under the OC, which is totally "vanished". The whole problem in the Middle East is the sons of Abraham of the flesh are still fighting over the land, which has no eternal value. Zionism did not help the "Jews". The ignorance of Christianity has made them what they are today, still looking for what they no longer have a claim to. There will never be peace for them outside of Christ.

That's fine. God can multi-task. I see the land promises going back to Abraham not to the Mosaic Old Covenant. I don't see the land promises being dealt with in Hebrews along with the Old Covenant. I see the desolation as first of all physical in both cases. I see in the contextual Scriptures Jesus talking about the physical temple and its destruction. Certainly there was spiritual desolation as well in both cases, in the final case far more extensive than in the first case.
I don't think you understand much of what I'm saying because you keep saying things that I actually agree with as if I don't agree with them. But perhaps that's my fault.
I would possibly take you slightly more seriously if Israel was not again fighting for their survival and other nations would not be eager to join in the
carnage. It seems like Satan hates Israel and wants its destruction. Unfortunately many professing Christians are getting sucked in on one side or another and are losing out on their calling.

[Bootstrap]

Unfortunately many professing Christians are getting sucked in on one side or another and are losing out on their calling.

That may be the most important sentence in this entire thread.

[Bootstrap]

What would you say to the many Christians who champion the right of Israel to to land today, even though they have not turned to Christ, and He isn't sitting on the throne of David?

I think the restoration of the nation of Israel is a good thing. I don't see it as the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies that were already fulfilled after the Babylonian captivity. I don't see New Testament prophecies that mention it. But especially after the Holocaust, creating a nation for Jews in the Holy Land is a very good thing indeed.

But the slogan "a land without a people for a people without a land" was wrong-headed. There were already people there. They need to be taken into account too. The failure to do that has led to a lot of bad consequences. Sometimes Christians can speak as though these people don't matter at all, this land was promised to Israel, and it doesn't matter what happens to the Palestinians. The Palestinians and most Muslims disagree. That's not surprising.

I heard Meir Kahane speak in person. It was alarming. He said many of the same things Hitler said about the Jews, but it was a Jew speaking about Palestinians. Most Jews are not extremists like that. But some are.

[gcdonner]

I would possibly take you slightly more seriously if Israel was not again fighting for their survival and other nations would not be eager to join in the
carnage.

But the question remains, What Israel? They are not a theocracy as God ordained them to be and they are not in covenant relationship with him anymore so what is your point? They are no better or worse than any other nation on the face of the earth.
There are no land promises in the NT at all. Are you aware that the word often translated as "forever" in the OT is literally translated as "to the age"?
If they are no longer in a covenant relationship with YHWH, then what special claim do they have to "the land", which was always tied up with obedience to the Covenant?

[NedFlanders]

I would possibly take you slightly more seriously if Israel was not again fighting for their survival and other nations would not be eager to join in the
carnage.

But the question remains, What Israel? They are not a theocracy as God ordained them to be and they are not in covenant relationship with him anymore so what is your point? They are no better or worse than any other nation on the face of the earth.
There are no land promises in the NT at all. Are you aware that the word often translated as "forever" in the OT is literally translated as "to the age"?
If they are no longer in a covenant relationship with YHWH, then what special claim do they have to "the land", which was always tied up with obedience to the Covenant?

Now we’re getting closer to seeing the kingdom of God!

[silentreader]

I would possibly take you slightly more seriously if Israel was not again fighting for their survival and other nations would not be eager to join in the
carnage.

But the question remains, What Israel? They are not a theocracy as God ordained them to be and they are not in covenant relationship with him anymore so what is your point? They are no better or worse than any other nation on the face of the earth.
There are no land promises in the NT at all. Are you aware that the word often translated as "forever" in the OT is literally translated as "to the age"?
If they are no longer in a covenant relationship with YHWH, then what special claim do they have to "the land", which was always tied up with obedience to the Covenant?

Now we’re getting closer to seeing the kingdom of God!

When they shall say, "Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord".

[gcdonner]

But the question remains, What Israel? They are not a theocracy as God ordained them to be and they are not in covenant relationship with him anymore so what is your point? They are no better or worse than any other nation on the face of the earth.
There are no land promises in the NT at all. Are you aware that the word often translated as "forever" in the OT is literally translated as "to the age"?
If they are no longer in a covenant relationship with YHWH, then what special claim do they have to "the land", which was always tied up with obedience to the Covenant?

Now we’re getting closer to seeing the kingdom of God!

When they shall say, "Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord".

As I mentioned above, "they" said it within a few days, at the Passover. It's already done.

It was all "Fulfilled in Christ", which, btw, is the title of my yet unpublished book. If anyone is interested in reading it, I am happy to share it in Word format, free of charge, starting with the first chapter entitled the same as the book. Just send me a pm.

[silentreader]

Now we’re getting closer to seeing the kingdom of God!

When they shall say, "Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord".

As I mentioned above, "they" said it within a few days, at the Passover. It's already done.

That theory was debunked some time ago.

It was all "Fulfilled in Christ", which, btw, is the title of my yet unpublished book. If anyone is interested in reading it, I am happy to share it in Word format, free of charge, starting with the first chapter entitled the same as the book. Just send me a pm.

No thanks, I don't need more eisegesis.

[silentreader]

I would possibly take you slightly more seriously if Israel was not again fighting for their survival and other nations would not be eager to join in the
carnage.

But the question remains, What Israel? They are not a theocracy as God ordained them to be and they are not in covenant relationship with him anymore so what is your point? They are no better or worse than any other nation on the face of the earth.
There are no land promises in the NT at all. Are you aware that the word often translated as "forever" in the OT is literally translated as "to the age"?
If they are no longer in a covenant relationship with YHWH, then what special claim do they have to "the land", which was always tied up with obedience to the Covenant?

What Israel?
The Israel that needs to look on Him whom they have pierced and recognize and acknowledge that He was/is the Lamb of God as John the Baptist introduced Him and repent of their unbelief so they can again become spiritual children of Abraham.

[gcdonner]

I would possibly take you slightly more seriously if Israel was not again fighting for their survival and other nations would not be eager to join in the
carnage.

But the question remains, What Israel? They are not a theocracy as God ordained them to be and they are not in covenant relationship with him anymore so what is your point? They are no better or worse than any other nation on the face of the earth.
There are no land promises in the NT at all. Are you aware that the word often translated as "forever" in the OT is literally translated as "to the age"?
If they are no longer in a covenant relationship with YHWH, then what special claim do they have to "the land", which was always tied up with obedience to the Covenant?

What Israel?
The Israel that needs to look on Him whom they have pierced and recognize and acknowledge that He was/is the Lamb of God as John the Baptist introduced Him and repent of their unbelief so they can again become spiritual children of Abraham.

What is your scriptural source for these assertations?