Well, there's a Dan people in Côte d'Ivoire and Liberia
Danzhou, China
Dan province of northeastern Thailand
Dan, West Virginia
Well, there's a Dan people in Côte d'Ivoire and Liberia
That sounds very similar to what Herbert W. Armstrong taught years ago.JohnHurt wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:09 pmHere is my explanation:
The tribe of Dan had already migrated outside the "known world" of the 1st Century, and that is why they are not in the list in Revelation.
Dan was already a maritime power operating outside of Israel by the time of Deborah (1100 BC), who condemned Dan for not returning to help fight for Israel: "and why did Dan remain in ships? " Judges 5:17.
Dan used their ships to trade along with Javan (Ezekiel 27:19). Javan is translated as Greece in Dan 8:21, 10:20, 11:2, Zech 9:13, and so Dan was allied with Greece.
James 1:1 is written "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad" - a statement that all 12 tribes existed in the 1st Century, with the majority outside Palestine. The word "scattered abroad" is Strongs #1290 "diaspora", which means Israelites living in foreign countries.
Diaspora is used in two other places, and it helps us understand where Israel existed in the 1st century.
When Christ said that He was going to a place where the Jews could not find him, the Jews said:
The word "Gentiles" in this verse is "Hellens" or "Greeks". The American Standard has translated this verse correctly:John 7:(35) Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?
This tells us that some of the Dispersion of Israel was to be found in Greece.ASV
7:35 The Jews therefore said among themselves, Whither will this man go that we shall not find him? will he go unto the Dispersion among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks?
The other verse concerning the "diaspora" is 1st Peter 1:1:
The word "scattered" is "diaspora" and tells that at least some of Israel was "sojourning" in these districts in Asia Minor.(1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Josephus, Antiquities, Chapter 5, section 2 tells us that the 10 Tribes of Israel existed outside Roman occupation:
The Euphrates is to the East, and the North of Palestine.Wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.
So what happened to the Tribe of Dan?
Dan found they needed more room for their large population, and when they conquered a land, they named it after their ancestor, Dan.
So, Dan was a maritime people, trading with the Greeks, and when they would conquer a land, they would name it "Dan".Joshua 19:(47) And the coast of the children of Dan went out too little for them: therefore the children of Dan went up to fight against Leshem, and took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and possessed it, and dwelt therein, and called Leshem, Dan, after the name of Dan their father.
So, maybe you are with me so far, but your background will prevent you from accepting my conclusion.
So where did Dan go?
To leave the "known world" of the Mediterranean Sea, Dan in his ships would have to pass through the strait of Gibraltar, or go up the rivers that discharged in the Black Sea. And he would give his name "Dan" to all of these places.
The Danube river leads from the Black sea into the heart of Europe, while the Don river leads from the Black sea into Russia. Were these rivers named by Dan?
The Israelites did not use vowels, so the Dnieper river would be a possibility. Gdansk in Poland, and others places may be named after Dan.
Some of these names are well hidden, like Edinburgh Scotland - in Gaelic - is Dunedin, or "Dan's Den" or Dan's resting place. Denmark means "Dan's land", and the "Danes" are a maritime people that knew all of the technology of the Mediterranean, like ship building and iron-making.
The Indo-European Language group links many languages to a common origin in the Middle East. Europeans, speaking a language associated with Sanskrit, did not "appear out of thin air."
If you like to study, do a comparison of the Runic Alphabet to the Paleo-Hebrew Alphabet (not the modern "block letters" Hebrew script). The Paleo Hebrew was used in the Siloam Inscription and was the original alphabet of Israel - and it has a lot of similarities to Runic. Runic is the first alphabet of Europe.
There has to be a connection between Europe and Ancient Israel.
Consider also that the Phoenicians and their ships under Hyrum of Tyre were friends with Solomon (1 Kings 9:27). The Phoenicians went as far as Cornwall, England and mined the tin there. The La Tene and Hallstat cultures in Europe have their roots in the Mediterranean, and they flourished about the same time that Dan "remained in ships".
Where else could Dan go, other than Europe? Why would he go any place else?
And it is easy to dismiss this with a few words, but the question remains, where did Dan go? And why is Dan not in Revelation, other than they had left the "known world" by the time John wrote Revelation? What other answers do we have?
And how did the culture of the Middle East, like building walled cities, smelting iron to make helmets, swords, shields, make it to Europe? And why is Europe the first fertile field of Christianity?
Even an answer that is not "politically acceptable" can still be correct. Galileo found that the Earth "does move", while Semmelweis found that washing your hands is the correct solution, although both ideas were "unacceptable" in their day.
I try to keep an open mind, even when the wind blows very strongly in the other direction.
John
Mr. Armstrong surmised many things based on circumstantial evidence - which is the case with any kind of thesis based on events over 3,000 years old. Yes, he was interesting, and he was incorrect in some areas, but at least he brought up the various subjects for discussion, instead of ignoring them.silentreader wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:38 pm
That sounds very similar to what Herbert W. Armstrong taught years ago.
Who are the recipients of the New Covenant? The House of Israel (10 tribes), and the House of Judah (2 Tribes). All 12 tribes exist, and all 12 tribes are Christian and under the New Covenant.Jeremiah 31:(31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
No Jew, or other non Christian can come to the Father, except through Christ.John 14:(6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The "Jews" of today deny that Christ is the Son of God, and "have not the Father". This means that the Jews of today are not "God's Chosen People". This is a lie that has been told to us repeatedly for political reasons, so that Christians would support the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel - a state based on violence, and racial division - and totally at odds with the teachings of Christ.1 John 2:(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Amen!
Prove your point! You can't and neither can the opposing view. That is a strawman argument. Next subject?appleman2006 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:41 pm Here is a very simple fact that ought to end this subject discussion for anyone that wants to do a simple study of genealogies . Based on simple math it is very likely that the vast majority of the world’s population particularly anyone of European, middle eastern and North African descent trace themselves at lease once to one of the 12 tribes.
Prove me wrong.
I have to agree with you that many other people, of all of the tribes of the earth who follow Jesus, have been gathered together along with the 12 Tribes of Israel, so that the Father's house would be called a house of prayer for all people:ohio jones wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:56 pmAmen!
Those of the 10 tribes who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.
Those of the 2 tribes who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.
Those of all tribes on earth who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.
Christ quotes Isaiah 56:7 in Matthew 21:13.Isaiah 56:(6) Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
(7) Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
(8) The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
Matthew 2:(6) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
I traced my ancestors back to the Civil war, and one of them back to the time they arrived in the Virginia in the 1600's, and trying to get beyond that, first there is no real documentation for "average people" of that era, but the other problem is the sheer number of ancestors in your family tree.gcdonner wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:58 amProve your point! You can't and neither can the opposing view. That is a strawman argument. Next subject?appleman2006 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:41 pm Here is a very simple fact that ought to end this subject discussion for anyone that wants to do a simple study of genealogies . Based on simple math it is very likely that the vast majority of the world’s population particularly anyone of European, middle eastern and North African descent trace themselves at lease once to one of the 12 tribes.
Prove me wrong.
Israel still exists today, and Israel is ruled by Christ. I let God keep track of His Own People, and I am awed when I see the majesty of how He keeps His Promises.Jeremiah 31:(35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
(36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
(37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.