The Twelve Tribes in Prophecy

[ohio jones]

Where else could Dan go, other than Europe? Why would he go any place else?

Well, there's a Dan people in Côte d'Ivoire and Liberia
Danzhou, China
Dan province of northeastern Thailand
Dan, West Virginia

[Josh]

That explains Danville, VA not to mention the Dan Hotel in Tel Aviv

[silentreader]

Dan was included in Joshua's allocations.

Yes, thanks for the correction.

But it's interesting that these lists differ. Anyone have a good explanation for that? It's not something I have thought of. And it seems like it might influence interpretation of the Revelation.

Here is my explanation:

The tribe of Dan had already migrated outside the "known world" of the 1st Century, and that is why they are not in the list in Revelation.

Dan was already a maritime power operating outside of Israel by the time of Deborah (1100 BC), who condemned Dan for not returning to help fight for Israel: "and why did Dan remain in ships? " Judges 5:17.

Dan used their ships to trade along with Javan (Ezekiel 27:19). Javan is translated as Greece in Dan 8:21, 10:20, 11:2, Zech 9:13, and so Dan was allied with Greece.

James 1:1 is written "to the twelve tribes scattered abroad" - a statement that all 12 tribes existed in the 1st Century, with the majority outside Palestine. The word "scattered abroad" is Strongs #1290 "diaspora", which means Israelites living in foreign countries.

Diaspora is used in two other places, and it helps us understand where Israel existed in the 1st century.

When Christ said that He was going to a place where the Jews could not find him, the Jews said:

John 7:(35) Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

The word "Gentiles" in this verse is "Hellens" or "Greeks". The American Standard has translated this verse correctly:

ASV
7:35 The Jews therefore said among themselves, Whither will this man go that we shall not find him? will he go unto the Dispersion among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks?

This tells us that some of the Dispersion of Israel was to be found in Greece.

The other verse concerning the "diaspora" is 1st Peter 1:1:

(1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

The word "scattered" is "diaspora" and tells that at least some of Israel was "sojourning" in these districts in Asia Minor.

Josephus, Antiquities, Chapter 5, section 2 tells us that the 10 Tribes of Israel existed outside Roman occupation:

Wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.

The Euphrates is to the East, and the North of Palestine.

So what happened to the Tribe of Dan?

Dan found they needed more room for their large population, and when they conquered a land, they named it after their ancestor, Dan.

Joshua 19:(47) And the coast of the children of Dan went out too little for them: therefore the children of Dan went up to fight against Leshem, and took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and possessed it, and dwelt therein, and called Leshem, Dan, after the name of Dan their father.

So, Dan was a maritime people, trading with the Greeks, and when they would conquer a land, they would name it "Dan".

So, maybe you are with me so far, but your background will prevent you from accepting my conclusion.

So where did Dan go?

To leave the "known world" of the Mediterranean Sea, Dan in his ships would have to pass through the strait of Gibraltar, or go up the rivers that discharged in the Black Sea. And he would give his name "Dan" to all of these places.

The Danube river leads from the Black sea into the heart of Europe, while the Don river leads from the Black sea into Russia. Were these rivers named by Dan?

The Israelites did not use vowels, so the Dnieper river would be a possibility. Gdansk in Poland, and others places may be named after Dan.

Some of these names are well hidden, like Edinburgh Scotland - in Gaelic - is Dunedin, or "Dan's Den" or Dan's resting place. Denmark means "Dan's land", and the "Danes" are a maritime people that knew all of the technology of the Mediterranean, like ship building and iron-making.

The Indo-European Language group links many languages to a common origin in the Middle East. Europeans, speaking a language associated with Sanskrit, did not "appear out of thin air."

If you like to study, do a comparison of the Runic Alphabet to the Paleo-Hebrew Alphabet (not the modern "block letters" Hebrew script). The Paleo Hebrew was used in the Siloam Inscription and was the original alphabet of Israel - and it has a lot of similarities to Runic. Runic is the first alphabet of Europe.

There has to be a connection between Europe and Ancient Israel.

Consider also that the Phoenicians and their ships under Hyrum of Tyre were friends with Solomon (1 Kings 9:27). The Phoenicians went as far as Cornwall, England and mined the tin there. The La Tene and Hallstat cultures in Europe have their roots in the Mediterranean, and they flourished about the same time that Dan "remained in ships".

Where else could Dan go, other than Europe? Why would he go any place else?

And it is easy to dismiss this with a few words, but the question remains, where did Dan go? And why is Dan not in Revelation, other than they had left the "known world" by the time John wrote Revelation? What other answers do we have?

And how did the culture of the Middle East, like building walled cities, smelting iron to make helmets, swords, shields, make it to Europe? And why is Europe the first fertile field of Christianity?

Even an answer that is not "politically acceptable" can still be correct. Galileo found that the Earth "does move", while Semmelweis found that washing your hands is the correct solution, although both ideas were "unacceptable" in their day.

I try to keep an open mind, even when the wind blows very strongly in the other direction.

John

That sounds very similar to what Herbert W. Armstrong taught years ago.

[JohnHurt]

That sounds very similar to what Herbert W. Armstrong taught years ago.

Mr. Armstrong surmised many things based on circumstantial evidence - which is the case with any kind of thesis based on events over 3,000 years old. Yes, he was interesting, and he was incorrect in some areas, but at least he brought up the various subjects for discussion, instead of ignoring them.

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So here is how our current "political situation" dictates what we will and won't accept from the Bible concerning the modern 12 Tribes of Israel:

James wrote the Book of James to the 12 tribes of Israel in the 1st Century. James 1:1

Christ said the 12 tribes would exist at the time of the "regeneration", with the 12 Apostles of Christ judging the 12 Tribes. Mt 19:28

Even Paul said that the 12 tribes hoped for Christ to redeem them. Acts 26:7.

A number of the 12 Tribes are "sealed" in Revelation 7:4, and the gates of the Heavenly Jerusalem have the names of the 12 Tribes written on them. Rev 21:12

These verses indicate that the 12 Tribes have not only existed from the 1st Century, and will exist until the future "regeneration", but that the 12 Tribes follow Christ, and are "Christian". The 12 Tribes, and all of Israel, are now Christian and inside the Church that Christ created.

Here is the proof:

Under Rehoboam and Jeroboam, the 12 Tribes split, with the "House of Israel" having the 10 Northern tribes, and the "House of Judah" have the 2 Southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The 10 tribes of the "House of Israel" were taken into Assyrian Captivity, while the 2 Tribes of the "House of Judah" returned from Babylonian Captivity to Jerusalem.

The New Covenant under Christ is made with the "House of Israel" and the "House of Judah". (Hebrews 8:8, Jeremiah 31:31) The New Covenant is made with all 12 Tribes:

Jeremiah 31:(31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Who are the recipients of the New Covenant? The House of Israel (10 tribes), and the House of Judah (2 Tribes). All 12 tribes exist, and all 12 tribes are Christian and under the New Covenant.

What the churches teach today, is that the 10 tribes of the "House of Israel" just "disappeared", and the 2 tribes of the "House of Judah" became the "Jews" of today. That is not what the New Covenant teaches in Jeremiah 31:31.

The churches teach that since "the Jews are Israel, then the establishment of the "State of Israel" in Palestine is a supposed fulfillment of Bible prophecy. That is impossible for the Jews to be Israel, as they are not under the New Covenant.

The New Covenant is a contract. They want you to believe that one party to the contract(the House of Israel) just "disappeared", while the other party to the contract (the House of Judah or the "Jews" of today) has rejected the contract. If either is true, then the contract is not valid.

For example, if you put your home up for sale, and the agent brought you a contract with two parties, but at the closing, one party just "disappeared", while the other party firmly rejected the contract - would you have a contract to sell your house? No.

The modern teaching in the churches that the "Jews are Israel", and the "10 Tribes disappeared" negates the New Covenant. This teaching originated with the rise of Zionism in the 1890's as a way to get Christians to support Jewish interests in Palestine as a fulfillment of "Bible prophecy".

Christ had this to say about the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and anyone else outside of Christianity:

John 14:(6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No Jew, or other non Christian can come to the Father, except through Christ.

The Apostle John said:

1 John 2:(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

The "Jews" of today deny that Christ is the Son of God, and "have not the Father". This means that the Jews of today are not "God's Chosen People". This is a lie that has been told to us repeatedly for political reasons, so that Christians would support the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel - a state based on violence, and racial division - and totally at odds with the teachings of Christ.

If there is to be a World War Three, it will start in the Middle East with the Nation of Israel. And there will be these modern day "Armstrongs" or "crackpots" that will see "Bible Prophecy" in a radioactive cloud.

Herbert Armstrong said many crazy things in the 1940's, like the Germans were the "Assyrians", and Hitler was the Anti-Christ that would reign for 1,000 years.

But Armstrong also speculated that the 10 "Lost Tribes" had migrated to Europe. If he said that today, due to the tremendous indoctrination of Christians into the "Chosen People Myth", Armstrong would be labeled an "Anti-Semite" and ridiculed. So no one today even dares to discover the location or destiny of the modern 12 tribes of Israel. That is why you are "taken aback" when discussing this topic, due to your indoctrination.

I pray for all of the people of Palestine, the Jews and the Arabs, that there would be peace there, and no more racial hatred. But it won't happen as long as the Christian religion is subverted to make Christians give unquestioning support to the "nation of Israel" for a never ending war against the people of Palestine.

And Christians will always support the Nation of Israel as long as we believe the Jews are Israel, and the 10 tribes "disappeared".

And I pray that our eyes are opened, and that we can see the Bible "for the first time", without all of the indoctrinations of men that have blinded us to the majesty of God's Plan for humanity. It is a beautiful plan, seen in its entirety.

Christ is a blessing for the entire world, not just for Christians. I believe that the teachings of Christ brought down Apartheid in South Africa, just like the Teachings of Christ freed the slaves in the American South. I pray that the teachings of Christ could be openly taught in Israel, to end this needless violence and hatred between the Jews and Arabs.

But it won't happen until Christians boldly teach that the 12 tribes are the recipients of the New Covenant.

[Josh]

I would prefer to say the Herbert Armstrong was wrong in all areas.

[ohio jones]

But it won't happen until Christians boldly teach that the 12 tribes are the recipients of the New Covenant.

Amen!
Those of the 10 tribes who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.
Those of the 2 tribes who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.
Those of all tribes on earth who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.

[appleman2006]

Here is a very simple fact that ought to end this subject discussion for anyone that wants to do a simple study of genealogies . Based on simple math it is very likely that the vast majority of the world’s population particularly anyone of European, middle eastern and North African descent trace themselves at lease once to one of the 12 tribes.
Prove me wrong.

[gcdonner]

Here is a very simple fact that ought to end this subject discussion for anyone that wants to do a simple study of genealogies . Based on simple math it is very likely that the vast majority of the world’s population particularly anyone of European, middle eastern and North African descent trace themselves at lease once to one of the 12 tribes.
Prove me wrong.

Prove your point! You can't and neither can the opposing view. That is a strawman argument. Next subject?

[JohnHurt]

But it won't happen until Christians boldly teach that the 12 tribes are the recipients of the New Covenant.

Amen!
Those of the 10 tribes who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.
Those of the 2 tribes who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.
Those of all tribes on earth who follow Jesus are recipients of the New Covenant.

I have to agree with you that many other people, of all of the tribes of the earth who follow Jesus, have been gathered together along with the 12 Tribes of Israel, so that the Father's house would be called a house of prayer for all people:

Isaiah 56:(6) Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

(7) Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

(8) The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Christ quotes Isaiah 56:7 in Matthew 21:13.

And the birth of Christ in Bethlehem points to the fact that Christ rules over Israel:

Matthew 2:(6) And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.

[JohnHurt]

Here is a very simple fact that ought to end this subject discussion for anyone that wants to do a simple study of genealogies . Based on simple math it is very likely that the vast majority of the world’s population particularly anyone of European, middle eastern and North African descent trace themselves at lease once to one of the 12 tribes.
Prove me wrong.

Prove your point! You can't and neither can the opposing view. That is a strawman argument. Next subject?

I traced my ancestors back to the Civil war, and one of them back to the time they arrived in the Virginia in the 1600's, and trying to get beyond that, first there is no real documentation for "average people" of that era, but the other problem is the sheer number of ancestors in your family tree.

Let' say each generation is 25 years, and you have 2 parents that were born in 1950, 4 grandparents born in 1925, 8 great grandparents born in 1900, etc.

Here is the math:

Year: - Ancestors born:
1950 - 2
1925 - 4
1900 - 8
1875 - 16
1850 - 32
1825 - 64
1800 - 128
1775 - 256
1750 - 512
1725 - 1,024
1700 - 2,048
1675 - 4,096
1650 - 8,192
1625 - 16,384
1600 - 32,768
1575 - 65,536
1550 - 131,072
1525 - 262,144
1500 - 524,288
1475 - 1,048,576

So, by the time we get back to the 1400's, we all had around a million people that were our ancestors - probably with the same people on both sides and in several places in our family trees - more like a huge "gene pool" that was separated from the rest of the world by geographical boundaries.

Today it is quite different, there are no geographical boundaries.

So, I use what Christ said to know who is who that "by their fruits ye shall know them". And, "The Lord knows them that are his" - a quote by Paul from Numbers 16:5.

But what is also true is this promise that God made to Israel, right after He gave the promise of the New Covenant to Israel in Jeremiah 31:31-34:

Jeremiah 31:(35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

(36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

(37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Israel still exists today, and Israel is ruled by Christ. I let God keep track of His Own People, and I am awed when I see the majesty of how He keeps His Promises.