Drinking coffee during church service?

[RZehr]

My two quick bits:

I think it depends on what the purported reason for the church service is. In the typical conservative Mennonite church, I'd say that the primary reason given, is to worship God. Even though one may dispute that worship is indeed the primary function given the format of the typical Sunday morning service, lets lay that dispute aside for now, and just go with the idea that the function is primarily to worship God.

And if worship of God is the primary goal, then it does seem to me, that an atmosphere of reverence, and singing, and prayer is right. As such, I argue that having any sort of distractions from that reverence is problematic. And to have some people playing on their phone, some people noshing on snacks, some people making PDA, some people whispering, some people sucking down beverages? None of that is indicative of people who are in a worshipful and reverent state of mind. This behavior is diverting ones attention from the spiritual purpose of the worship service, and diminishing the overall spiritual experience for oneself and others. I think the human body can go without food and drink and the restroom for two hours just fine.

If the primary reason for assembly, is for entertainment, then I have little to comment about the appropriateness of extra-curricular activities during the services.

If the primary reason is for teaching, one may argue that a reverent atmosphere is not so necessary. And while I agree that reverence itself may not be as necessary, I believe that none of these behaviors are actually beneficial for the person who is actually and keenly interested in learning anything.

If the primary reason for assembly, is merely fellowship and encouraging one another, then I suppose a much more relaxed atmosphere is alright.

[QuietlyListening]

Thankfully we don't have cups strewn around and if there is a spill it is cleaned up immediately.
We also don't have anyone disturbed by folks getting coffee.

An yes we are close in age- I just turned 69.

[ohio jones]

Conservative Wesleyan holiness churches in my area don't allow eating in the same building where worship occurs, so they have separate fellowship halls.

The Mennonite church I grew up in had a separate fellowship hall, which later doubled as a school when that started; but that was for practical reasons related to the layout of the property, not theological constraints.

The nearby Beachy church had their school in the church basement. They had some students from Holiness families who did not eat lunch in the building because it was a church. Their mothers drove to school at noon and ate lunch with their children in the car.

[Sudsy]

Seems to me the more a church tends to accommodate entertaining versus worship, the more the environment will take on a setting that best fits with entertainment. Such churches prefer soft, comfortable chairs and some even with drink holders for the person sitting behind you. Gone are the days of long sermons beyond an hour or two on hard uncomfortable, wooden seated pews. And to hold people's attention, you better have some jokes and/or funny stories in your sermon. Quite different than anything I get from the New Testament writings.

We have a local church, largest in the city, that accommodates those that want to sit out in a drinking and snacking area while watching the service on a big screen. So far they serve only soft drinks but it wouldn't surprise me that ordering a beer will be the next accommodation. The important thing, I guess, is to get people coming to church and maybe someday they will get saved. I attended a men's bible study once in this church and was quite surprised they brought beer. It was like when I played old timer hockey and each week someone brought a case of beer for after the game. After the study we sat around and watched hockey and drank beer with other snacks. My backslidden era.

Personally, being in my latter 70's, these modern day worship ways are a bit too much for me. When the service is more about what I can relate to carnally and not spiritually, and I can't find a church where this is the opposite, then I can pick one or two off the TV and join in with them. Yes, I miss the physical hand shaking but through these various forums and TV, I find I can get more spiritual fellowship than I was getting in these local church groups. 'Forsaking not the assembly of ourselves', as often used against my choice, imo, is not taking into account that there is a modern way to assemble that does not require being together in a personal touching sense. Others disagree, however, I think physical church attending will continue to drop off and many churches of all sorts will close. If this does occur, I believe the really true believers will continue to seek out fellowship using modern means and/or physical meeting in very small, home type gatherings.

So, all this accommodating carnal minded believers and methods to try to attract unbelievers into a church setting is just not for me. I just wish there was more spiritual interests in some of these forums than there is worldly interests but it is what it is.

[Neto]

My two quick bits:

I think it depends on what the purported reason for the church service is. In the typical conservative Mennonite church, I'd say that the primary reason given, is to worship God. Even though one may dispute that worship is indeed the primary function given the format of the typical Sunday morning service, lets lay that dispute aside for now, and just go with the idea that the function is primarily to worship God.

And if worship of God is the primary goal, then it does seem to me, that an atmosphere of reverence, and singing, and prayer is right. As such, I argue that having any sort of distractions from that reverence is problematic. And to have some people playing on their phone, some people noshing on snacks, some people making PDA, some people whispering, some people sucking down beverages? None of that is indicative of people who are in a worshipful and reverent state of mind. This behavior is diverting ones attention from the spiritual purpose of the worship service, and diminishing the overall spiritual experience for oneself and others. I think the human body can go without food and drink and the restroom for two hours just fine.

If the primary reason for assembly, is for entertainment, then I have little to comment about the appropriateness of extra-curricular activities during the services.

If the primary reason is for teaching, one may argue that a reverent atmosphere is not so necessary. And while I agree that reverence itself may not be as necessary, I believe that none of these behaviors are actually beneficial for the person who is actually and keenly interested in learning anything.

If the primary reason for assembly, is merely fellowship and encouraging one another, then I suppose a much more relaxed atmosphere is alright.

I agree with all of this, with two caveats:
I was diagnosed with migraine headaches already in my teens, and when I get one, I become extremely thirsty. I don't often get up and go out for a drink of water, rarely, really, but it CAN be very necessary, as drinking more water tends to help deal with the pain.
Secondly, until I had the TURP surgery (now nearly 5 years ago) I needed to visit the restroom MUCH more frequently than every two hour span. Sometimes half an hour was all I could endure. I expect that others have similar needs that they won't really want to talk about.

[Soloist]

Secondly, until I had the TURP surgery (now nearly 5 years ago) I needed to visit the restroom MUCH more frequently than every two hour span. Sometimes half an hour was all I could endure. I expect that others have similar needs that they won't really want to talk about.

I’ve done all the stages of that from diagnosis, surgery, recovery, post op, f/u
I loved doing that surgery. I’ll refrain from talking about the specific bits I loved
I didn’t enjoy TURBT as much though… too messy.

Did you do traditional resection?

[Neto]

Secondly, until I had the TURP surgery (now nearly 5 years ago) I needed to visit the restroom MUCH more frequently than every two hour span. Sometimes half an hour was all I could endure. I expect that others have similar needs that they won't really want to talk about.

I’ve done all the stages of that from diagnosis, surgery, recovery, post op, f/u
I loved doing that surgery. I’ll refrain from talking about the specific bits I loved
I didn’t enjoy TURBT as much though… too messy.

Did you do traditional resection?

Hope this is not TMI.

The "roto-rooter" type, I guess. I don't know enough about it to answer, really. I had already had one episode where I desperately needed to urinate, but it was blocked by the enlarged prostate. It was the middle of the night, and I was about to call 911 when my wife suggested sitting in hot water, which did the trick for me. A friend of mine waited too long, and was in a foreign country when he had the same issue, only couldn't get past it. He had to have a catheter for 3 weeks, to get back to the States and then go through all of the pre-surgery tests and arrangements. I had it bad enough. One night I had to get up 12 times, and each time it took around 15 to 20 minutes just to get started, and then could never really empty the bladder. I was getting about 30 minutes of sleep between each episode. Couldn't live like that.

[Ernie]

My (hidden) point was that at one time the first was not acceptable for adults, but now it is. Is the "slippery slope" strewn with empty coffee cups? (I do, however, occasionally need to get up & go out to get a drink of water, or because of a coughing fit. Maybe that is also distracting to others.)

If I've read things correctly you and I are about the same age. We or at least I have seen many changes in church culture.

I feel a need to point out again that there are churches that keep on doing things the way they always did. And for at least a couple hundred years, there have always been churches that try to be more accommodating. I point this out for anybody who is reading and might not be aware of this...

Quite frequently I hear people saying things like, "there is more interest in urban church planting among our people" or "there is less reverence during church services" or "people in our churches don't believe in absolutes anymore" as if these things are new or surprising. Anybody who reads very widely about churches and movements and church history from the last couple centuries, knows that there have been many people, including Anabaptists who have experienced these things as they go through cycles.

[Soloist]

Hope this is not TMI.

The "roto-rooter" type, I guess. I don't know enough about it to answer, really. I had already had one episode where I desperately needed to urinate, but it was blocked by the enlarged prostate. It was the middle of the night, and I was about to call 911 when my wife suggested sitting in hot water, which did the trick for me. A friend of mine waited too long, and was in a foreign country when he had the same issue, only couldn't get past it. He had to have a catheter for 3 weeks, to get back to the States and then go through all of the pre-surgery tests and arrangements. I had it bad enough. One night I had to get up 12 times, and each time it took around 15 to 20 minutes just to get started, and then could never really empty the bladder. I was getting about 30 minutes of sleep between each episode. Couldn't live like that.

70% of males will have enlarged prostates. I’m not sure how many can be treated with meds versus surgical. Generally the surgery is good for at least 10 years before you might need it repeated.
Most people end up waiting until they are miserable…
Did you have an ultrasound prior?

[Neto]

Hope this is not TMI.

The "roto-rooter" type, I guess. I don't know enough about it to answer, really. I had already had one episode where I desperately needed to urinate, but it was blocked by the enlarged prostate. It was the middle of the night, and I was about to call 911 when my wife suggested sitting in hot water, which did the trick for me. A friend of mine waited too long, and was in a foreign country when he had the same issue, only couldn't get past it. He had to have a catheter for 3 weeks, to get back to the States and then go through all of the pre-surgery tests and arrangements. I had it bad enough. One night I had to get up 12 times, and each time it took around 15 to 20 minutes just to get started, and then could never really empty the bladder. I was getting about 30 minutes of sleep between each episode. Couldn't live like that.

70% of males will have enlarged prostates. I’m not sure how many can be treated with meds versus surgical. Generally the surgery is good for at least 10 years before you might need it repeated.
Most people end up waiting until they are miserable…
Did you have an ultrasound prior?

I was advised to start doing PSA tests already in my late 40's, and it was unusually enlarged already then. Sometimes the Urologist would ask for tests to be done after 3 or 6 months, but mostly just annually. We went the med treatment route first, then the surgery as a sort of last resort. (This doctor is a Mennonite, the son of a couple in our congregation. He doesn't push surgery as a first course of action. Other people said I didn't need to go through all that - that I should have taken this or that natural treatment. There will always be those folks, and I know they mean well.)

He started talking about this surgery some years just to get me familiar with the options, I guess, before he said that I really needed to do it, but by then I was very ready. I had both ultra-sounds and at least one biopsy before the surgery, and then they sent off what they cut out for confirmation against cancer as well. Many years before I had some symptoms that my family doctor felt looked so much like cancer that he told me that according to my symptoms I should have died from cancer before I even went in to see him. (We didn't go to the doctor regularly while living in Brazil - just waited until furlough times unless something was really serious.) The surgery was complicated by two places in the urethra where there was such a constriction that they had to cut their way through to get up to the prostate. That's why I had to have the catheter for several days after the surgery. (Getting that out was the most painful part of the whole deal, and I passed blood for quite some time after that.) He said these constrictions were likely from childhood injuries, and I can actually think of one time that may have been it.