Piper's paper on D&R

General Christian Theology
Post Reply
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23826
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Josh »

http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/div ... tion-paper

Piper is an enigma. I didn't know he held this position.
0 x
silentreader
Posts: 2511
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:41 pm
Affiliation: MidWest Fellowship

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by silentreader »

Josh wrote:http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/div ... tion-paper

Piper is an enigma. I didn't know he held this position.
Does he still?
0 x
Noah was a conspiracy theorist...and then it began to rain.~Unknown
Valerie
Posts: 5309
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/div ... tion-paper

Piper is an enigma. I didn't know he held this position.
From the article:

Those who are already remarried:

Should acknowledge that the choice to remarry and the act of entering a second marriage was sin, and confess it as such and seek forgiveness
Should not attempt to return to the first partner after entering a second union (see 8.2 above)
Should not separate and live as single people thinking that this would result in less sin because all their sexual relations are acts of adultery. The Bible does not give prescriptions for this particular case, but it does treat second marriages as having significant standing in God's eyes. That is, there were promises made and there has been a union formed. It should not have been formed, but it was. It is not to be taken lightly. Promises are to be kept, and the union is to be sanctified to God. While not the ideal state, staying in a second marriage is God's will for a couple and their ongoing relations should not be looked on as adulterous.



Is that what your present Church of God in Christ Mennonite believe too Josh?
0 x
undershepherd
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:45 pm
Location: Harrisonburg VA
Affiliation: Mountain Valley Menn
Contact:

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by undershepherd »

silentreader wrote:
Josh wrote:http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/div ... tion-paper

Piper is an enigma. I didn't know he held this position.
Does he still?
Yes that is still his position as I understand it. And he is not alone. There are quite a few churches and church leaders in the reformed world that hold the same or very similar positions.
0 x
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23826
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Josh »

COGICM's position isn't anything close to Piper's.

Piper's position would lead to some odd situations: suppose my ex wife or her husband (or both) came to believe in and follow Jesus (which would be wonderful and is my prayer).

So Piper would expect them to remain married, and expect me to remain celibate.

Basically I'd be expected to honour our marriage vows whilst she is explicitly expected not to. That's an odd situation to say the least.
0 x
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23826
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Josh »

silentreader wrote:
Josh wrote:http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/div ... tion-paper

Piper is an enigma. I didn't know he held this position.
Does he still?
As far as I can tell, his congregation's leadership has adopted a slightly softer stance which is detailed at the link above. In particular, someone whose spouse divorces them and marries someone else, means the innocent spouse is free to remarry:
4. The remarriage of the aggrieving, divorced spouse may be viewed as severing the former marriage so that the unmarried spouse whose behavior did not biblically justify being divorced, may be free to remarry a believer (Matthew 19:9), if he or she has confessed all known sin in the divorce, and has made significant progress in overcoming any destructive behaviors and attitudes.
Piper himself doesn't believe this but submits to the broader church consensus of the Reformed circles of which is he a part.
0 x
Wade
Posts: 2683
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:09 am
Affiliation: kingdom Christian

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Wade »

Josh wrote:COGICM's position isn't anything close to Piper's.

Piper's position would lead to some odd situations: suppose my ex wife or her husband (or both) came to believe in and follow Jesus (which would be wonderful and is my prayer).

So Piper would expect them to remain married, and expect me to remain celibate.

Basically I'd be expected to honour our marriage vows whilst she is explicitly expected not to. That's an odd situation to say the least.
Could you explain how COGICM's way of handling that situation would not be close to Piper's way?

(Not trying to pick on anyone or any group as much as I am just curious in understanding what you are saying.)
0 x
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23826
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Josh »

Wade wrote:Could you explain how COGICM's way of handling that situation would not be close to Piper's way?

(Not trying to pick on anyone or any group as much as I am just curious in understanding what you are saying.)
Thanks, Wade.

Basically, they would evaluate every situation in the light of "except for sexual immorality" (Matt. 5), through a process of discernment both as a congregation and then in difficult to discern situations, with the input of the leadership in multiple congregations. They also would have a view that if a marriage is not legitimate in God's eyes, it is not proper to continue it; a marriage is either legitimate or it is not.

In Piper's view, if a marriage is illegitimate you just need to quickly repent of it, even if it something as egregious as having an affair, divorcing, and then marrying the affair partner. If a COGICM church member did that, and then later tried to be restored to the church, their new "marriage" would not be accepted, and they would be encouraged to reconcile with their victim spouse.

Nearly every one of these cases either involves someone who leaves their spouse and leaves the church, or else involves unusual situations in the mission field. The goal is to learn New Testament principles and then make practical applications with the discernment of a brotherhood and the broader church.
0 x
Ernie
Posts: 5447
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Ernie »

Josh wrote:If a COGICM church member did that, and then later tried to be restored to the church, their new "marriage" would not be accepted, and they would be encouraged to reconcile with their victim spouse.
And if they had and affair, divorced, and remarried as "born again Evangelicals", prior to joining COGICM?
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
User avatar
Josh
Posts: 23826
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:23 pm
Location: 1000' ASL
Affiliation: The church of God

Re: Piper's paper on D&R

Post by Josh »

Ernie wrote:
Josh wrote:If a COGICM church member did that, and then later tried to be restored to the church, their new "marriage" would not be accepted, and they would be encouraged to reconcile with their victim spouse.
And if they had and affair, divorced, and remarried as "born again Evangelicals", prior to joining COGICM?
If they were never part of the COGICM or another conservative Anabaptist church, they would be treated just like someone coming from any other religion or no faith at all.
0 x
Post Reply