Why Black ?

General Christian Theology
Ken
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Location: Washington State
Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: Why Black ?

Post by Ken »

PetrChelcicky wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:37 am As for "plain", my justification has always been that "plain" means "not fashionable". Everything is okay when it is no more the fashion of the world.
- Reading this here I have a second thought: "plain" mey mean "not competitive". Fashion is not only worldly in itself, but above all it promotes competition: "I try to be more fashionable than you", which leads to conspicuous sonsumption and destroys the communal spirit.
Is that correct?
I think the generally accepted translation of dressing "modestly" such as that found in 1 Timothy is to dress humbly. In that context, Paul isn't talking about showing skin (short skirts, etc.) but talking about wearing fancy fabrics and jewelry and showing your wealth.

I suspect that modesty in the sexual sense and fashion in the designer sense are modern concepts that didn't really exist in Biblical times. Or perhaps more accurately, they weren't really issues that common people were concerned with. The modern notion of fashion, for example, is more of a phenomenon of mass produced and mass marketed clothing.

Even today in some more nomadic and traditional middle eastern cultures, wearing your wealth in the form of gold is still a thing.

So I suspect Paul is probably saying, don't dress like this:

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Sudsy
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Re: Why Black ?

Post by Sudsy »

PetrChelcicky wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:37 am As for "plain", my justification has always been that "plain" means "not fashionable". Everything is okay when it is no more the fashion of the world.
- Reading this here I have a second thought: "plain" mey mean "not competitive". Fashion is not only worldly in itself, but above all it promotes competition: "I try to be more fashionable than you", which leads to conspicuous sonsumption and destroys the communal spirit.
Is that correct?
A couple thoughts, although not about the 'black' issue -

I believe one can be caught in competition in being more "plain" (less fashionable) than another believer. I have heard some of this in my early Pentecostal years when some women regarded themselves in a 'holier-than-thou' way over other women that did not appear to be dressed as 'holy' as they did. I remember as a youngster our lady pastor wearing a broach on her dress and hearing other women challenging that. Or those who wore a fine chain with a small cross even if they hid it by their dress. And there were various other items like wedding bands, etc, etc.

My take on 1 Timothy 2 where Paul gives the ladies some examples of what women do to attract attention to themselves is Paul is saying that their attraction should not be through those things but rather through their good deeds. Jesus said we are all to be a light in this world. A light that cannot be hid. And again, this outstanding feature was to be through our good deeds. And I don't believe these good deeds are meant just to be amongst other believers. I also believe these good deeds include sharing the Good News.

The Mennonites in our area that appear to be the most active in good deeds are not those who appear to be extremely out of fashion in their dress. It would not appear though that they include sharing the Good News which is the best good deed we could ever do. I think they would be labelled here by some as 'liberal' or 'more worldly'. I don't believe keeping up with a current trend or style is a sin unless it is immodest or causes us to sin in some other way.

Paul said he became all things to all men to see them saved. To a certain extent Paul 'fit in' with those he was ministering to. I think this is key to reaching the lost and we need the Holy Spirit to teach us how to go to where sin abounds and to 'fit in' in a God honoring way. Jesus was highly criticized by the Pharisees for his involvement with Zacchaeus and other sinners. He didn't 'fit in' with the Pharisee view of separation. If we 'come out from among them' in an isolated way and not be doing them good deeds and sharing the Gospel then we are not following the Master.
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