Milk vs. Meat

[Soloist]

I'll stick to truth and mucking through false teachings such as the rejection of Jesus's hypostatic human and God nature within the Trinity ++ from the flesh with Mary. In other words, we don't discuss the Celestial flesh heresy enough. This is something that many Christians are misled by.

We have plenty of intellectual stimulation without having to learn other languages. That is meat, to understand who Jesus Christ really is, where he comes from, and how he relates to God.

I disagree. Something that has provoked murder, strife and general wickedness is not meat.

[Chris]

I'll stick to truth and mucking through false teachings such as the rejection of Jesus's hypostatic human and God nature within the Trinity ++ from the flesh with Mary. In other words, we don't discuss the Celestial flesh heresy enough. This is something that many Christians are misled by.

We have plenty of intellectual stimulation without having to learn other languages. That is meat, to understand who Jesus Christ really is, where he comes from, and how he relates to God.

I disagree. Something that has provoked murder, strife and general wickedness is not meat.

I fail to see how Celestial flesh teachings provoke murder, strife, and wickedness. Many Christians are falling into a trap that Jesus Christ was not from the lineage of Mary, that his flesh was not linked to hers. This would be a deep deep heresy.

[Soloist]

I fail to see how Celestial flesh teachings provoke murder, strife, and wickedness. Many Christians are falling into a trap that Jesus Christ was not from the lineage of Mary, that his flesh was not linked to hers. This would be a deep deep heresy.

I was speaking more towards the early church history arguing between trinitarianism and Arianism.
I don’t personally think that celestial flesh is somehow a deeper heresy than some other heresy. I also don’t think that the nature of Christ’s flesh really matters that much. We know he came in the flesh, whether it was tissue provided from Mary or not doesn’t really matter. I doubt Menno Simmons really knew how biology worked. The big issue really circles over whether or not Jesus had better resistance to sin than we do if He had celestial flesh. To that I really don’t know and if the Holy Spirit overshadowed her as it says, then chances are there was something celestial within Him. Adam from a certain point of view had celestial flesh. Either way I don’t see that it’s significant enough to shun someone over it seems a little bit like semantics really.
I’m content to say that I don’t understand all the mysteries of Jesus or the relationship of Jesus and God. What I know is that he was fully human.

[Chris]

I fail to see how Celestial flesh teachings provoke murder, strife, and wickedness. Many Christians are falling into a trap that Jesus Christ was not from the lineage of Mary, that his flesh was not linked to hers. This would be a deep deep heresy.

I was speaking more towards the early church history arguing between trinitarianism and Arianism.
I don’t personally think that celestial flesh is somehow a deeper heresy than some other heresy. I also don’t think that the nature of Christ’s flesh really matters that much. We know he came in the flesh, whether it was tissue provided from Mary or not doesn’t really matter. I doubt Menno Simmons really knew how biology worked. The big issue really circles over whether or not Jesus had better resistance to sin than we do if He had celestial flesh. To that I really don’t know and if the Holy Spirit overshadowed her as it says, then chances are there was something celestial within Him. Adam from a certain point of view had celestial flesh. Either way I don’t see that it’s significant enough to shun someone over it seems a little bit like semantics really.
I’m content to say that I don’t understand all the mysteries of Jesus or the relationship of Jesus and God. What I know is that he was fully human.

The problem with celestial flesh is Jesus comes from the seed of David (son of David). Celestial flesh eradicates the lineage cited in prophecy. It also makes null and void the genealogies in the scripture (one from Joseph the other Mary). You are right though it's no deeper heresy than many others. Menno indeed was decent and had some good foundations. The good thing about Anabaptists is we don't raise up a reformist inceptor as scripture. We appreciate but see him as a fallible man. Most Anabaptists would not agree with him (Menno) on divorce and remarriage for instance.

Depth of prophecy fulfilled (seed of David) from the Jews, the messiah through God's chosen people is all part of celestial flesh heresy. Where I find meat in this, is understanding who Jesus is, where he really came from, and especially HOW HE RELATES to us as man. Mary was a fallible mother. Joseph a fallible man. But they raised a perfect human son through Mary in lineage of King David.

[Soloist]

I don’t know that the lack of biological material would change the genealogy one way or another. I’m content say I don’t know.

[ken_sylvania]

The problem with celestial flesh is Jesus comes from the seed of David (son of David). Celestial flesh eradicates the lineage cited in prophecy. It also makes null and void the genealogies in the scripture (one from Joseph the other Mary).

How would it affect the Joseph genealogy?

[Chris]

The problem with celestial flesh is Jesus comes from the seed of David (son of David). Celestial flesh eradicates the lineage cited in prophecy. It also makes null and void the genealogies in the scripture (one from Joseph the other Mary).

How would it affect the Joseph genealogy?

I typed out wrong and I can see why you read it that way.

I meant it would void out the genealogy of Mary, but wanted to make the statement the genealogies "conflict" because one is of Joseph and one from Mary. That said, under marriage the two become one flesh (it's not a sexual reference as most describe it) (Gen 2:23). As a married virgin, Mary was "one flesh" of Joseph. Both from the line of David. The two genealogies base both Joseph and Mary because of the importance of Jesus's lineage from David. The Bible is perfect to cover men who would only base it on an "adoptive father", but the genealogy of Mary (genetics) is where the seed of David came from in proper Christian understanding. Either way man can twist it, Jesus is from King David's lineage. Again, in pure Christian understanding, he is from Mary's flesh, not Joseph.

Celestial flesh eradicates any lineage of David (Basically Jesus was "put" into Mary's womb), thus nullifying the prophecy equating it to heresy.

[Josh]

It's extremely rare or at least used to be to find OO Amish Church Services in English. Our friend is joining OO Amish in December & gradually learning their language but that takes time!

Perhaps learning German is the price of intellectual stimulation.

I'll stick to truth and mucking through false teachings such as the rejection of Jesus's hypostatic human and God nature within the Trinity ++ from the flesh with Mary. In other words, we don't discuss the Celestial flesh heresy enough. This is something that many Christians are misled by.

What on earth are you talking about?

There isn’t any Anabaptist group left that teaches this other than Holdemans and then barely care nor teach it much either.

The term “hypostatic union” isn’t in my Bible either.

We have plenty of intellectual stimulation without having to learn other languages. That is meat, to understand who Jesus Christ really is, where he comes from, and how he relates to God.

No it isn’t. An intellectual approach does not lead to genuine followers of Jesus, but if you think it does, the doors of the Episcopal church are wide open and your local library has a bookshelf with N.T. Wright titles on it.

[Bootstrap]

I fail to see how Celestial flesh teachings provoke murder, strife, and wickedness. Many Christians are falling into a trap that Jesus Christ was not from the lineage of Mary, that his flesh was not linked to hers. This would be a deep deep heresy.

I was speaking more towards the early church history arguing between trinitarianism and Arianism.
I don’t personally think that celestial flesh is somehow a deeper heresy than some other heresy. I also don’t think that the nature of Christ’s flesh really matters that much. We know he came in the flesh, whether it was tissue provided from Mary or not doesn’t really matter. I doubt Menno Simmons really knew how biology worked. The big issue really circles over whether or not Jesus had better resistance to sin than we do if He had celestial flesh. To that I really don’t know and if the Holy Spirit overshadowed her as it says, then chances are there was something celestial within Him. Adam from a certain point of view had celestial flesh. Either way I don’t see that it’s significant enough to shun someone over it seems a little bit like semantics really.
I’m content to say that I don’t understand all the mysteries of Jesus or the relationship of Jesus and God. What I know is that he was fully human.

The New Testament doesn't give us a systematic theology that fully describes the Trinity, and some of the early Fathers believed things we now consider heretical. It can be kind of weird reading each Church Fathers from this perspective. It wasn't really until the Council of Nicea that a more complete theological explanation of the Trinity had been worked out.

Which makes me think that this kind of systematic theology is not the "meat" that the Bible is talking about. It didn't seem necessary, for instance, in Paul's letters.

But I do agree that it's important to know that Jesus was fully God and fully man.

[Bootstrap]

To me, "meat" just might mean learning how to know who we are in Christ, what the Kingdom of God is, what God has called us to in the ministry of reconciliation, and knowing how to translate that into the way we live our lives. I can't prove that, but I think it's likely.

You see this theme in Paul's letters. There's an area where they need to grow, such as sexual immorality. He reminds them of who we are in Christ, what he has called us to, that our bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, and then reminds them what that means for the way we live our lives.

Or when he is facing trials and difficulties, knowing that God is God and we are not, being able to trust in God's grace, which is sufficient.

This is more than just following the rules. It requires the Holy Spirit. It generally requires us to seek the Spirit together in fellowship with others. It requires a relationship with God and with Scripture. It requires us to sign up for God's agenda here on earth - not simply to live in our safe little walled off cells, but to be salt and light to the world.