Milk vs. Meat

[RZehr]

I've been cogitating on this since I read Chris's post in that other boring thread. The use of milk vs. meat in relationship to knowledge and repetition caught my attention. I've moved them here because I want to look at this.

What is milk and what is meat? Is milk simply the elementary aspects of faith? And is meat simply more knowledge?

Sometimes the repetition in church makes me feel like it's spiritual milk constantly poured over and over and over again. Repetitive. It's hard to sit there bored with it. I want to do something about it.

It may be a "spiritual milk" issue. I'm concerned we are being fed spiritual milk in its most simplistic form. We aren't learning new stuff. Just re-spun application with the same point. As Christians we know the word, and should be applying it, and living it. There is crazy amounts of sermons that could be had dealing with scripture and God's church. 2000+ years worth.

I am VERY passionate about Jesus. I want to know about him, more in depth, more of his church, more of his gospel. More and more. I don't just want to keep stopping at spiritual milk! I'd much rather learn of how the church as it evolved and formulated met peace between conflicting bishops than hearing another David slaying "life's Goliaths" any day. (I'm sure you've heard that sermon too). The controversy itself put church authority over law, and is an example of Galatians text being put into practice by the church itself! The teaching itself shows love between bishops, and how they resolved the situation peacefully despite conflicting views (no church split!). It's an important sermon and lesson!

The entire Gospel and Church is both History, and living and breathing today!

The gospel itself seemingly "repeats itself", but that's because you are reading a letter to Corinthians, Romans, Galatia, Thesso., Ephesus, etc. That said, as the church "evolved" and grew, it wasn't nearly as repetitive. It was amazingly deep! Amazingly thought out! Scholars, authors, commentaries of Early Christians. It's really amazing stuff!

I'm sort at odds with people saying "intellectual Christians are of poor morals". It's sort of like calling Paul, Luke, John, Peter, Ignatius, Polycarp, .... Chrysostom... etc., of poor morals. I mean many were smart and martyrs. Cyprian to boot. Origen and his genius of poor morals? No. Don't think so. That is not a fair argument. It's basically saying people need to be "babies" or be sinners.

[Ernie]

I think of milk as foundational concepts about God and the world.

I think of meat as concepts that are harder to be understood. Sometimes it is simply more knowledge or knowledge that is more complex or more abstract. Sometimes it is something that can hardly be understood without spiritual perception or without spiritual experience.

[Bootstrap]

I've been cogitating on this since I read Chris's post in that other boring thread. The use of milk vs. meat in relationship to knowledge and repetition caught my attention. I've moved them here because I want to look at this.

What is milk and what is meat? Is milk simply the elementary aspects of faith? And is meat simply more knowledge?

Children drink milk before they are ready for solid food. They can't chew meat at a young age. Once you have grown up, you can handle meat. This is used as an analogy for maturity.

Meat refers to the things that young Christians might choke on, things that make mature Christians stronger.

[Bootstrap]

The examples given in the passage are not actually difficult to understand, but they do require spiritual maturity.

Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

If you are fighting about which spiritual tribe you belong to, you are not ready for spiritual things. You are spiritual babies.

What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

God is the one who makes all things grow. We plant, we water, but it's all up to God. And we are gardening together in his name to build his kingdom. That's the basic milk that we need to absorb before we can go any further.

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Jesus is the foundation.

Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

Together, we are God's temple. If we destroy that temple with our religious tribalism, God will judge us.

[Bootstrap]

In Hebrews, solid food is for the mature - the people who have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. It's not theologically difficult, it doesn't require Hebrew and Greek or a university degree, but it does require discipline, training yourself to live according to God's teaching of righteousness:

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

These things also are milk:

Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.

The rest of Hebrews seems to go on to offer meat.

[Josh]

I wish church could have a structure to teach about “meat” whilst still making sure plenty of “milk” is provided. We sort of do this with Sunday school.

Some are really craving more meat (like Chris).

[Valerie]

My pondering are this.. it seems Paul went into some deep things of spirituality in Corinthians. Does anyone see other epistles as more meat than Corinthians?

[Sudsy]

Whether one is a young Christian or one that has been in the way (and sometimes literally are) for many years, one can remain as still needful of milk which is what human babies are given.

Scripture gives us some examples of what a mature Christian is growing to be in Eph 4 -

Some things mentioned and I may have missed some -

- humble and gentle
- patient with each other
- allows for each one's faults
- works at keeping united in the Spirit
- is bound together in peace
- as a leader build up the church in mature faith and unity
- speak truth in love
- growing more and more like Christ
- making the whole church body fit perfectly together
- each doing their own special calling
- growing in love
- throwing off our old sinful nature
- letting the Spirit guide our thoughts and attitudes
- living righteouisly and holy
- not telling lies
- not giving way to anger
- not stealing
- working hard
- cleaning up our language
- our words be helpful, good and encouraging
- have a sense of shame
- don't grieve the Holy Spirit by how we live
- remember we are the property of the Holy Spirit
- get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander
- get rid of all evil behaviour
- be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another
- don't get sucked in by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes

And in 1 Cor 3 we read -

But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

The underlined speaks of being immature spiritually. Just acting carnally.

I believe this is only possible by an on-going filling of the Holy Spirit otherwise we fall back into giving way to our fleshly natures.

I guess looking at this list and other scriptures my practise is still far from being a mature believer. But it is something I need to keep working on through the enabling power of the Holy Spirit. In my own strength this will not happen.

[Joy]

Jesus did command this, after His resurrection, in His instructions to His followers:

"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." Matt. 28:19, 20

[Chris]

I think of milk as foundational concepts about God and the world.

I think of meat as concepts that are harder to be understood. Sometimes it is simply more knowledge or knowledge that is more complex or more abstract. Sometimes it is something that can hardly be understood without spiritual perception or without spiritual experience.

Yes this is how I understand it too. If we have to say every Sunday "The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ" while true and wonderful, I think we get it. I think we know already this teaching and live by it daily. This is spiritual milk. IT IS IMPORTANT to have this teaching.

Typically though, if you sit in a group of moderates to conservative Anabaptists - they have this teaching down. Like for decades on end. There's a reason we have children's hymns and adult hymns is best how I can describe this.

If we sing every single Sunday "Jesus Loves me this I know for the Bible tells me so..." as adults, for adult hymns - it would get boring after a while. It's wonderful. It's TRUE. But it is milk.

I want to know about Jesus more than just this. I want to be captivated by him. I want to know all of his word. I want to know all about his church. I want to discuss how Paul in Galatians 1 didn't consult a church or brothers, but just went out into Arabia and shared the scripture with no church backing.... These are deep spiritual concepts. Fascinating ways to think about God's perfect word and salvation. It's both liberating and powerful.