Q #1 - Why have children ?

[ohio jones]

I care that God is being mis-represented when the scripture also says that His mercy endureth forever.

But that is not all the scripture says about His mercy. The unrepentant should not expect to receive mercy.

The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.

And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.

[Sudsy]

I care that God is being mis-represented when the scripture also says that His mercy endureth forever.

But that is not all the scripture says about His mercy. The unrepentant should not expect to receive mercy.

The Lord is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.

And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.

So, does 'forever' mean 'forever' or not ? I believe it means 'forever until ----'. With regard to punishment, until a proper amount is reached. It is eternal (outside of time) punishment that is also described as destruction. Not eternal, as in never ending punishing.

Well, this is a whole topic of it's own that can't be dealt with unless all the scriptures are considered to be fair. Which I won't explore further here.

[RZehr]

For those who make it to Heaven, it could rightly be said that His mercy towards those is indeed enduring forever.

[Marylander]

I'm not sure how to understand this and may read into this more than you intend, so I'll just say, OK .

Sorry, I am not more clear.

I said this because I do think I have some responsibilty to try to bring others to faith and I am not concerned about my own salvation as I have assurance according to the scriptures. I agree the Spirit draws men to the Father but the Spirit primarily works through believers to spread the good news that Jesus saves. So, I'm not sure that we agree on this but perhaps you want to point out where we differ on this.

So with your view "...have some responsibility to bring others to faith". I don't think God needs your help to bring people to the faith. He draws all believers unto himself and uses that still, small voice which I believe is in every man.

"I am not concerned about my own salvation cuz I have assurance..." I admire people with that level of confidence but I am not there and don't know if I ever will be in this life.

And regarding the billions of people who are not Christians, I leave that to God "whose ways are past finding out".

I wish you well in your evangelism efforts and respect evangelistic minded people but I personally don't want to evangelize, only to make someone "two fold more the child of hell".

[ken_sylvania]

[
And so, because you believe the penalty for sin is punishment followed by annihilation you are willing to stand by as people reject the offer of salvation, because their suffering will only be temporary? Is that what you are saying?

No, that is not what I am saying and I think you know that is not what I am saying.

You seem to be saying that if everlasting punishment is a real thing, then people should be more motivated to evangelize. In order for that view to be logical you must believe that it is OK to evangelize less if people will suffer temporarily and then be annihilated.

In any event, why do you care if the people who believe in eternal punishment don't evangelize energetically, considering you don't believe anyone will suffer forever due to that failure?

I care that God is being mis-represented when the scripture also says that His mercy endureth forever. I have only asked others to consider this view and if their works with regard to the endless punishment view reflects that view. So, why shouldn't I care as do others here when they think a certain understanding of scripture is incorrect ?

If the desire is that people would gain the "right" view that punishment for sin is temporary followed by annihilation, I think the argument you are presenting is completely illogical. You are saying that our actions are not consistent with what we claim to believe, and suggesting that we modify our belief so that our belief is consistent with our actions. Such an approach is a recipe for deception. We need to find out what truth is, line up our beliefs with the truth, and then modify our actions so that they are also in accord with the truth. (I do understand that there are those who believe the last step is unimportant - I had thought you were also of that persuasion but it now appears such is not the case).

[Sudsy]

[
And so, because you believe the penalty for sin is punishment followed by annihilation you are willing to stand by as people reject the offer of salvation, because their suffering will only be temporary? Is that what you are saying?

No, that is not what I am saying and I think you know that is not what I am saying.

You seem to be saying that if everlasting punishment is a real thing, then people should be more motivated to evangelize. In order for that view to be logical you must believe that it is OK to evangelize less if people will suffer temporarily and then be annihilated.

In any event, why do you care if the people who believe in eternal punishment don't evangelize energetically, considering you don't believe anyone will suffer forever due to that failure?

I care that God is being mis-represented when the scripture also says that His mercy endureth forever. I have only asked others to consider this view and if their works with regard to the endless punishment view reflects that view. So, why shouldn't I care as do others here when they think a certain understanding of scripture is incorrect ?

If the desire is that people would gain the "right" view that punishment for sin is temporary followed by annihilation, I think the argument you are presenting is completely illogical. You are saying that our actions are not consistent with what we claim to believe, and suggesting that we modify our belief so that our belief is consistent with our actions. Such an approach is a recipe for deception. We need to find out what truth is, line up our beliefs with the truth, and then modify our actions so that they are also in accord with the truth. (I do understand that there are those who believe the last step is unimportant - I had thought you were also of that persuasion but it now appears such is not the case).

You can believe as you chose. I just asked others to consider the annihilation belief and whether this belief better represents the character and example of Jesus. I agree with you on what I underlined in your last post. To me, it is not logical to believe in unending torment and for those who believe in unending torment to not be caring enough to try to save everyone from such a situation is illogical. I agree with you on what I underlined in your last post. We will need to disagree then on what we both see as what is logical or not and what is the truth on the matter.

[RZehr]

I think you should reevaluate who you are listening to.

[Sudsy]

I think you should reevaluate who you are listening to.

Yes, we should, shouldn't we ?

[ohio jones]

I think you should reevaluate who you are listening to.

Yes, we should, shouldn't we ?

You would benefit from the teachings of the Theological Touchpoints podcast.

[Sudsy]

I think you should reevaluate who you are listening to.

Yes, we should, shouldn't we ?

You would benefit from the teachings of the Theological Touchpoints podcast.

What is the link ?