Q #1 - Why have children ?

[Sudsy]

It's 2023. Any individual in this world has an unparalleled opportunity to learn the Truth. The Holy Spirit, the Bible, other faithful Christians, the internet, CAM billboards, fellow faithful Christians...

You can ask the question on your computer on how many today have still never heard the Gospel and see what the estimates are. One of these says 3 billion people in some 7,000 people groups. I have no doubt the figure is still in the billions. As more are being reached, more are coming into the world. But don't take my word for it, look what other estimates are saying.

[Marylander]

I would like to ask you to clarify if this is your thought, or if it is a part of something this other person said, and what it means in terms of the discussion here. (I'll just say that many commentators hesitate to call this a parable, and some openly say that it is not. If it is, it is the only one in which Jesus gave a character in a parable a name. I take it as an actual story, not a parable.)

My Adventist neighbor considers the story a parable and therefore the state of the rich man is not a portrayal of hell.

Thank you for the clarification. As Soloist pointed out, the story does not depict hell, but something like a 'waiting place' for the final punishment. But although the idea of eternity is not mentioned, it IS a place of conscious torment, at least for the rich man. (Abraham also does not promise him any relief from the torment of that place for him, and the rich doesn't seem to expect that - he only begs for someone to tell his brothers, so that they might avoid that place. But the point of the story has to do with the sufficiency of Scripture - the 'Old Testament' - to find the truth that would provide deliverance from that destination. It also shows Jesus' own respect for the Scripture. It isn't really about "the wages of sin" at all.)

Thanks for the explanation. I never heard this until now. So it's a portrayal of the intermediate state.

[Marylander]

It's 2023. Any individual in this world has an unparalleled opportunity to learn the Truth. The Holy Spirit, the Bible, other faithful Christians, the internet, CAM billboards, fellow faithful Christians...

You can ask the question on your computer on how many today have still never heard the Gospel and see what the estimates are. One of these says 3 billion people in some 7,000 people groups. I have no doubt the figure is still in the billions. As more are being reached, more are coming into the world. But don't take my word for it, look what other estimates are saying.

I don't feel that it's my responsibility pertaining to the billions of "unsaved" in the world. That's quite a large sack to carry on your back. I am mostly concerned about my own salvation. And the Spirit draws men to the Father.

[Sudsy]

It's 2023. Any individual in this world has an unparalleled opportunity to learn the Truth. The Holy Spirit, the Bible, other faithful Christians, the internet, CAM billboards, fellow faithful Christians...

You can ask the question on your computer on how many today have still never heard the Gospel and see what the estimates are. One of these says 3 billion people in some 7,000 people groups. I have no doubt the figure is still in the billions. As more are being reached, more are coming into the world. But don't take my word for it, look what other estimates are saying.

I don't feel that it's my responsibility pertaining to the billions of "unsaved" in the world. That's quite a large sack to carry on your back. I am mostly concerned about my own salvation. And the Spirit draws men to the Father.

I'm not sure how to understand this and may read into this more than you intend, so I'll just say, OK .

[Josh]

I have a number of friends who went down this path, first pursuing annihilationism, then Marcionism (believing the God in the Old Testament is a bad, evil god), eventually not believing in heaven or hell at all, and eventually losing all faith in the Bible and Jesus.

A very sad path to go down.

[Marylander]

You can ask the question on your computer on how many today have still never heard the Gospel and see what the estimates are. One of these says 3 billion people in some 7,000 people groups. I have no doubt the figure is still in the billions. As more are being reached, more are coming into the world. But don't take my word for it, look what other estimates are saying.

I don't feel that it's my responsibility pertaining to the billions of "unsaved" in the world. That's quite a large sack to carry on your back. I am mostly concerned about my own salvation. And the Spirit draws men to the Father.

I'm not sure how to understand this and may read into this more than you intend, so I'll just say, OK .

Sorry, I am not more clear.

[Marylander]

I have a number of friends who went down this path, first pursuing annihilationism, then Marcionism (believing the God in the Old Testament is a bad, evil god), eventually not believing in heaven or hell at all, and eventually losing all faith in the Bible and Jesus.

A very sad path to go down.

Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses believe in annihilation...but retain the Bible. Adventists also believe in Jesus. So not all go down the path described, however, far too many do.

[Sudsy]

I don't feel that it's my responsibility pertaining to the billions of "unsaved" in the world. That's quite a large sack to carry on your back. I am mostly concerned about my own salvation. And the Spirit draws men to the Father.

I'm not sure how to understand this and may read into this more than you intend, so I'll just say, OK .

Sorry, I am not more clear.

I said this because I do think I have some responsibilty to try to bring others to faith and I am not concerned about my own salvation as I have assurance according to the scriptures. I agree the Spirit draws men to the Father but the Spirit primarily works through believers to spread the good news that Jesus saves. So, I'm not sure that we agree on this but perhaps you want to point out where we differ on this.

[Sudsy]

I have a number of friends who went down this path, first pursuing annihilationism, then Marcionism (believing the God in the Old Testament is a bad, evil god), eventually not believing in heaven or hell at all, and eventually losing all faith in the Bible and Jesus.

A very sad path to go down.

Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses believe in annihilation...but retain the Bible. Adventists also believe in Jesus. So not all go down the path described, however, far too many do.

I am more of the Adventist view on this and often watch an Adventist pastor, Doug Bachelor and his Amazing Facts TV broadcast. Doug has had an amazing conversion experience and there are some wonderful born again Christians in the Adventist group.

[Josh]

I have a number of friends who went down this path, first pursuing annihilationism, then Marcionism (believing the God in the Old Testament is a bad, evil god), eventually not believing in heaven or hell at all, and eventually losing all faith in the Bible and Jesus.

A very sad path to go down.

Adventists and Jehovah Witnesses believe in annihilation...but retain the Bible. Adventists also believe in Jesus. So not all go down the path described, however, far too many do.

JWs have their own Bible that refuses to even say Jesus or the Christ / Messiah.

Adventists were part of groups that mostly lost their faith or went back to being conventional. I have no ill will towards them but find a religion based around Sabbath keeping and eating vegan foods to be rather far from what Jesus wants his followers to do.