Salvation by faith and works..?

General Christian Theology
Valerie
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
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Re: Salvation by faith and works..?

Post by Valerie »

Paul wrote:
Dear Valerie,
These are very tough Scriptures to understand rightly, and I want to be careful that what I say is truly dividing the Word rightly, also in the humble admission that I don't know anything but praying that the Lord will grant the wisdom to understand His truths. So I will read these Scriptures you mentioned and their context, and pray over this and I will try to respond later on.
So I have thought about it, and read the texts and prayed for it, and I have to say I do not have an easy answer. The Bible paints a seeming paradox, that is somehow both true, but impossible to comprehend how they both can be true at the same time. I think the Bible does this on other issues aswell, when it comes to our free will and Gods sovereignty for example. On Gods sovereignty, the Bible says:

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Lamentations 3:37 Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not?

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.


Yet on man's responsibility, it also says:

Isaiah 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Isaiah 55:6-7 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

He has not given His people a heart to perceive, eyes to see and ears to hear.

Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

But that doesn't excuse them at all, they are fully responsible for their unbelief, and righteously punished for it.

Deuteronomy 29:24-28 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the LORD done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger? Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the LORD God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt: For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them: And the anger of the LORD was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book: And the LORD rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.

So just to give a few examples of how God is Sovereign, and yet man is responsible, two truths that I don't want to attempt to bring together, as the Bible doesn't make any effort to do so either.

Well likewise I think it is in the case of our perseverance. I think perseverance of the saints is a much better term to describe what I mean than Once Saved, Always Saved. True saints, with true living faith will ultimately persevere through all the trials that come our way - so the perseverance through trials proves our faith is real and can stand the heat. However if it falls away, it shows that our faith was not true persevering faith, and that such temporary faith exists was made clear in the parable of the soils and in the parable of the houses that were built on the sand/rock. In times of trial, when the wind and the waves came, it became apparant which house was founded upon the Rock, and in times of trial it became apparant which seed fell into good soil and had enough root.

So we are admonished in Scripture to persevere to the end, and yes those who have put their faith in Jesus Christ are called to persevere, they are responsible to keep the faith and by keeping it - proving that it is the true kind of faith that endures to the end, the good soil that brings forth 30,60 or 100 fold, the house that is built on the Rock, and the fruitful branch that abides in the Vine.

And at the same time it is God that keeps them and seals them by His Holy Spirit, it is Christ that intercedes for them, and it is He that will lose none of His sheep. So I think these truths are similar to our free will and Gods sovereignty, both are true yet hard to reconcile in our minds - but the good thing is that we don't need to, we can simply let both truths stand as God has revealed it to us in His Word and affirm them both as true.

I do not believe that when our Lord says their names will not be blotted out of the book of life in Revelation 3:5, it necessarily means anything other than an encouragement to persevere. I don't think it means our names can be written in the book of life, to then be blotted out again.

Sorry I didn't have more time to add Scripture references etc, but I have to be in bed in time for work tomorrow.

God bless!
Paul, I want to thank you for taking the time to pray and thoughtfully share the passages that convey what you sincerely believe- I agree with so much of what you said- and especially like this:

And at the same time it is God that keeps them and seals them by His Holy Spirit, it is Christ that intercedes for them, and it is He that will lose none of His sheep. So I think these truths are similar to our free will and Gods sovereignty, both are true yet hard to reconcile in our minds - but the good thing is that we don't need to, we can simply let both truths stand as God has revealed it to us in His Word and affirm them both as true.


You mentioned how Jesus does not 'lose' sheep- although we can wander (and I have in the past) He did pursue me, as He said He would leave the 99 in search of the lost one. I have seen paintings of this, where He is carrying the lamb over His shoulders and it has meant a lot to me, to think of that kind of love He has, His longsuffering, His mercy, and truly thankful for His intercession. I am not sure what to think of those examples in Scriptures who had left the faith (they had) but I do know that He is for us, and will finish what He started- some will certainly finish much better than myself yet I know He has pursued me in times I felt so far away- He is a very tender Shepherd, sometimes He needs that rod and sometimes the Shepherd's hook to real us back in- I think the purpose of staying in the Word is to help in this perseverance, along with fellowship, prayer and sharing our faith & seeking to love & serve others.
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