Morality of design

[Soloist]

https://web.archive.org/web/20030929004 ... eople.net/
Initial design goes through a few changes

https://web.archive.org/web/20080422015 ... eople.net/
Then from 2008 to beginning of 2021 it was the same
https://web.archive.org/web/20210623015 ... eople.net/

They start making some front end changes again
https://web.archive.org/web/20210917064 ... eople.net/

and current design
https://www.emypeople.net

You could easily do this with any website to see that one has to update their website to keep it fresh.
Borrowing a post from Grace

Modesty covers a broad base, not just in dress as so many Conservative Anabaptist believe. It is far more than dress. It can be drawing attention to one self, which can be done in many ways. It can include bragging, seeking attention, seeking the lime light, always wanting to be in the center, etc. It is reflected in the kinds of houses we own, the vehicles we drive, our lifestyles, our businesses. For women modesty can be very visible in the manner of dress, but it also includes the way the children are dressed and the way homes are decorated. Sometimes I am appalled with the Mennonite You Tubers such as Megan Fox and Lynette Yoder. They are advocates for modest dress in women, which is a good thing. However the way they have their homes decorated with all the latest styles, the money they must spend to get their homes to look like a magazine, is anything but modest

After you have looked at the changes, please consider these questions from a spiritual point of view and this is why its not in the tech area because the website design is really secondary to the actual point.

Are such things as home decor or website design amoral/moral/immoral?

Reasons of course for these things can all be justified, but if you stood before God today and were asked these questions, how would you answer for your choices?
Would your choice on website design, store front or layout (thinking of you Mike), home decor change in light of eternity?
I had made a comment to my wife last night that I would have preferred Emypeople due to their lack of modern website design and also due to Compass not returning my call when I asked about specific needs for my situation (which apparently required approval from their board) That being said, Emypeople no longer has that lack which I liked
Temporal's post about https://www.themennonitemom.com also got me on the subject.
Does a lack of website polish make you more or less interested in purchasing a product?
Does appearance of church have an association to this? We have simple churches generally, but not always. Our church recently updated the sign to a very modern look compared to the old one. Was this amoral/moral/immoral?
https://www.architecturaldigest.com/sto ... ral-images
Is this amoral/moral/immoral?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mennonite ... 290029.JPG
This one?

A simple argument is that some of this is maintenance necessary to keep the condition of the property, the old way isn't always better, website design needs to be updated for security reasons.
What are your thoughts on this fairly broad subject from a spiritual approach?

[Josh]

I advise clients now against frequent redesigns. There’s really no business case for, for example, a septic service company to have a modern design. The 1990s-era design actually conveys more competence and integrity in the domain of septic service (not to mention much better Google page rank).

[Sliceitup]

I advise clients now against frequent redesigns. There’s really no business case for, for example, a septic service company to have a modern design. The 1990s-era design actually conveys more competence and integrity in the domain of septic service (not to mention much better Google page rank).

I agree that frequent redesigns are unnecessary. However, frequent maintenance would be good. A 90s era design will probably be completely incompatible with mobile devices. Most older sites don’t have responsive design which is a really quick way to get people to move on to a competitors site.

[Neto]

I advise clients now against frequent redesigns. There’s really no business case for, for example, a septic service company to have a modern design. The 1990s-era design actually conveys more competence and integrity in the domain of septic service (not to mention much better Google page rank).

I agree that frequent redesigns are unnecessary. However, frequent maintenance would be good. A 90s era design will probably be completely incompatible with mobile devices. Most older sites don’t have responsive design which is a really quick way to get people to move on to a competitors site.

It is a (perhaps sad) characteristic of our times that businesses are to some degree "forced" to comply with the trends in technology, lest they be left out of business opportunities. There was a time when dial-up internet was adequate for doing research and shopping on-line, but now web design has "advanced" to the point where that is probably no longer workable at all. And probably all of our expectations have also moved with it, so that we would no longer be satisfied with the old standards. I personally bemoan many of the advances in technology use, especially in areas that are not really necessary, or are actually inferior.

A couple of examples from technology in automobiles. Last year (due to mounting maintenance issues) we upgraded our 2009 family vehicle to a 2019 model. This new car has a LOT of electronic features we've never needed to deal with before. I can hardly get the wipers to go any speed but slow and really fast. I had it working once before, when we were on a long distance trip, but I only drive it on Sundays, to church services, and I no longer remember how that works. But the worst deal is that it has an electric emergency brake. I know, lots of people never use that. But I was taught to use it any time when parked on a hill, to keep the weight of the car off of the transmission 'Park' lock, and for other reasons as well. (This is a gasoline vehicle, but on a diesel, if you just put it in gear to hold it on a hill, and someone bumps it with their vehicle, it can start the engine, and off it goes. At least that was the case with the Toyota Banderante in Brazil.) But on this electric emergency brake deal - the manual explicitly states NOT TO USE IT in sub-zero temperatures. The concern is that it might freeze, and then it cannot be released. It actually says to use wheel chocks! Been there & done that, on my first car, a 62 Chrysler, which had the emergency brake in a drum on the rear of the transmission. There was no Park in that transmission. So when the parking brake wore out, I had to either drop the drive shaft to fix it, or use wheel chocks. I see no reason why a manual hand brake or foot operated manual brake is not a much better solution. Window winders is another one, although my wife strongly disagrees. My opinion is that lots of stuff is incorporated into vehicles and other appliances for the sole reason that it CAN be done.

House designs (and size) can also reach decadent levels. Church houses the same. I have seen it happen in enough congregations that there seems to be some relationship between padded pews or chairs and the loss of kneeling to pray. (They still sing the songs with those words, but never do it. Just if it says to raise your hands, then you're supposed to do it.) At least they haven't put a steeple on the church house - yet.

[Grace]

It is a (perhaps sad) characteristic of our times that businesses are to some degree "forced" to comply with the trends in technology, lest they be left out of business opportunities. There was a time when dial-up internet was adequate for doing research and shopping on-line, but now web design has "advanced" to the point where that is probably no longer workable at all. And probably all of our expectations have also moved with it, so that we would no longer be satisfied with the old standards. I personally bemoan many of the advances in technology use, especially in areas that are not really necessary, or are actually inferior.

A couple of examples from technology in automobiles. Last year (due to mounting maintenance issues) we upgraded our 2009 family vehicle to a 2019 model. This new car has a LOT of electronic features we've never needed to deal with before. I can hardly get the wipers to go any speed but slow and really fast. I had it working once before, when we were on a long distance trip, but I only drive it on Sundays, to church services, and I no longer remember how that works. But the worst deal is that it has an electric emergency brake. I know, lots of people never use that. But I was taught to use it any time when parked on a hill, to keep the weight of the car off of the transmission 'Park' lock, and for other reasons as well. (This is a gasoline vehicle, but on a diesel, if you just put it in gear to hold it on a hill, and someone bumps it with their vehicle, it can start the engine, and off it goes. At least that was the case with the Toyota Banderante in Brazil.) But on this electric emergency brake deal - the manual explicitly states NOT TO USE IT in sub-zero temperatures. The concern is that it might freeze, and then it cannot be released. It actually says to use wheel chocks! Been there & done that, on my first car, a 62 Chrysler, which had the emergency brake in a drum on the rear of the transmission. There was no Park in that transmission. So when the parking brake wore out, I had to either drop the drive shaft to fix it, or use wheel chocks. I see no reason why a manual hand brake or foot operated manual brake is not a much better solution. Window winders is another one, although my wife strongly disagrees. My opinion is that lots of stuff is incorporated into vehicles and other appliances for the sole reason that it CAN be done.

That 2019 model vehicle sounds complicated. We upgraded to a 2016 vehicle a few years ago, and has a "push to start" button, something I do not like. We have it for five years and at times, out of many years of habit, hubby attempts to stick the key into the ignition on the column. Last year something went wrong and the car went into "limp mode". We were clueless what was going on, as to why the car simply did not go faster than five miles an hour. I searched the owners manual and finally figured out what why it was acting so stubborn. Alas it needed a repair job that cost around $1,500.

House designs (and size) can also reach decadent levels. Church houses the same. I have seen it happen in enough congregations that there seems to be some relationship between padded pews or chairs and the loss of kneeling to pray. (They still sing the songs with those words, but never do it. Just if it says to raise your hands, then you're supposed to do it.) At least they haven't put a steeple on the church house - yet.

I agree. Here in Lancaster County the big expensive houses, decorated to the latest styles of the day, appalls me at times. And that mindset spills over into any church upgrades, that are done.

[Neto]

It is a (perhaps sad) characteristic of our times that businesses are to some degree "forced" to comply with the trends in technology, lest they be left out of business opportunities. There was a time when dial-up internet was adequate for doing research and shopping on-line, but now web design has "advanced" to the point where that is probably no longer workable at all. And probably all of our expectations have also moved with it, so that we would no longer be satisfied with the old standards. I personally bemoan many of the advances in technology use, especially in areas that are not really necessary, or are actually inferior.

A couple of examples from technology in automobiles. Last year (due to mounting maintenance issues) we upgraded our 2009 family vehicle to a 2019 model. This new car has a LOT of electronic features we've never needed to deal with before. I can hardly get the wipers to go any speed but slow and really fast. I had it working once before, when we were on a long distance trip, but I only drive it on Sundays, to church services, and I no longer remember how that works. But the worst deal is that it has an electric emergency brake. I know, lots of people never use that. But I was taught to use it any time when parked on a hill, to keep the weight of the car off of the transmission 'Park' lock, and for other reasons as well. (This is a gasoline vehicle, but on a diesel, if you just put it in gear to hold it on a hill, and someone bumps it with their vehicle, it can start the engine, and off it goes. At least that was the case with the Toyota Banderante in Brazil.) But on this electric emergency brake deal - the manual explicitly states NOT TO USE IT in sub-zero temperatures. The concern is that it might freeze, and then it cannot be released. It actually says to use wheel chocks! Been there & done that, on my first car, a 62 Chrysler, which had the emergency brake in a drum on the rear of the transmission. There was no Park in that transmission. So when the parking brake wore out, I had to either drop the drive shaft to fix it, or use wheel chocks. I see no reason why a manual hand brake or foot operated manual brake is not a much better solution. Window winders is another one, although my wife strongly disagrees. My opinion is that lots of stuff is incorporated into vehicles and other appliances for the sole reason that it CAN be done.

That 2019 model vehicle sounds complicated. We upgraded to a 2016 vehicle a few years ago, and has a "push to start" button, something I do not like. We have it for five years and at times, out of many years of habit, hubby attempts to stick the key into the ignition on the column. Last year something went wrong and the car went into "limp mode". We were clueless what was going on, as to why the car simply did not go faster than five miles an hour. I searched the owners manual and finally figured out what why it was acting so stubborn. Alas it needed a repair job that cost around $1,500.

House designs (and size) can also reach decadent levels. Church houses the same. I have seen it happen in enough congregations that there seems to be some relationship between padded pews or chairs and the loss of kneeling to pray. (They still sing the songs with those words, but never do it. Just if it says to raise your hands, then you're supposed to do it.) At least they haven't put a steeple on the church house - yet.

I agree. Here in Lancaster County the big expensive houses, decorated to the latest styles of the day, appalls me at times. And that mindset spills over into any church upgrades, that are done.

Ours is a Honda CR-V. The first foreign car I have ever owned. (Except for a Brazilian VW we owned while we were foreigners in Brazil, so I guess that doesn't count.) This Honda has the keyless entry (just walk up to it and put your hand into the door handle area, and it unlocks), push button start, and it even sets the seat differently for the two "dongles". Lane departure. Automatically matches the speed of the vehicle in front of you when you have the cruise on. Backup camera. Alerts when a car comes along side you. Sometimes it alerts when there is nothing there, too, just for good measure.

The car we "replaced" (actually still have it) was/is a 2009 Dodge Journey. It is a base model, bought it when it was a bit over 2 years old, in Sarasota, FL. It developed some electronic/computer issues, and it was in the shop two times last Fall, for around 7 weeks total, spent a huge wad of cash, and the mechanic couldn't fix it. There are about 4 idiot lights that stay on all of the time, ABS, ESP (extra sensory perception??!), and some other monkey business, the little skid marks. But it runs and drives just fine. I know that some of those automatically disable the cruise, but this one didn't have it anyway. It's been a great vehicle, and it's still in quite good shape for as old as it is, and having had it here in Ohio, subjected to the Salt Devil.

Speaking of push button start, my 46 Plymouth has that too, although you DO also have to have the key in the ignition switch. Had some great fun back when I was a little kid, me and my next older brother, in our grandpa's 49 Ford. My mom took us along to go strawberry picking with my grandparents, and they left us in the car. (Don't worry, the windows were down.) We hunkered down in the front seat, peaking out to see when someone was coming along the side walk in front of the car, then pushed the started button when they got right in front of the car. He had it in gear, to keep it from rolling back, and so it would lurch or sort of jump when we pushed that button. The people also jumped..... Pretty good fun until some man couldn't take a joke, and came around & told us off.

[Franklin]

Is the immodesty of modern design the only issue? What about the pointless complexity? What about the pointless dependencies of modern software that make it fragile/unreliable and difficult to use in isolation? What about following pointless trends that are ideas worshipped like idols?

I think modern design is bad in every conceivable way, reflecting the purely evil culture that it comes from. As I said before:

Most languages don't distinguish between "evil" and "bad". Hebrew doesn't. Modern software is bad. This is the result of bad values. Modern people's values are entirely bad which means that everything that they design is bad. Are such values evil? This is just a semantic question.

Why did God command the Israelites to destroy everything they found in the Canaanite cities that they conquered? Because these Canaanites were just like members of the modern West. Everything they produced was bad, and God didn't want the Israelites to learn bad values from the bad things that the Canaanites produced.