Well, that happened.

[Heirbyadoption]

But seven Amish murders are surprising for a non-violent society.

It is possible for any group of Christians to walk away from the teachings of Jesus.
Murders are unknown in most Amish communities.
Having said that, many Amish no longer represent what was held in common by the early Anabaptists and the early church.
Wherever and whenever a group of professing Christians stop studying the Bible, no longer teach the new birth, and no longer expect people to follow Jesus, anything can happen.

I think one needs to get to know the Amish better before making judgments.

Respectfully (and I do realize it's already been pointed out that Ernie didn't say "ALL Amish"), Ernie's 4 statements are rooted in truth, and can be attested by some of us who are acquainted with a fairly broad range of Amish in various states and communities... While I tremendously appreciate your caution against making sweeping judgments, his last statement in particular is absolutely not something to dismiss out of hand as an exaggeration - it's much more of a general reality among the OOA than you may realize.

Having said that, it's fascinating that your husband expresses actual interest in becoming Amish (I'm presuming Old Order, or at least a horse and buggy version?). Is that based primarily on his interaction with holy Spirit filled Amish or on the appeal of the simplicity of Amish life, or perhaps even the cultural separation? I'd love to hear what attracts him there.

[Neto]

... many Amish no longer represent what was held in common by the early Anabaptists and the early church.
....

While I can attest to true spiritual life among the Amish (both preachers and laity), other encounters reveal otherwise, for some individuals. Even among those in whom I sense genuine spiritual life, there is a tendency to view things like the confession made at the time of baptism as a technically right confession, rather than as a personal one. (Or, to spell it out a bit more, they hold that it is not important whether they had a personal faith in Jesus as their savior, but what was essential was that they had made "a right confession", a theologically correct one. Former Amish with this opinion who later move to other congregations will not ask to be baptized upon their faith, maintaining that it would be an unnecessary insult to the Amish church in which they were baptized. That is, they believe they were already "baptized upon their confession".)

In consideration of this, I would say that in general, the Amish are not really even anabaptist at all, because they do not claim a position consistent with "believers' baptism".

[Josh]

While I can attest to true spiritual life among the Amish (both preachers and laity), other encounters reveal otherwise, for some individuals. Even among those in whom I sense genuine spiritual life, there is a tendency to view things like the confession made at the time of baptism as a technically right confession, rather than as a personal one. (Or, to spell it out a bit more, they hold that it is not important whether they had a personal faith in Jesus as their savior, but what was essential was that they had made "a right confession", a theologically correct one. Former Amish with this opinion who later move to other congregations will not ask to be baptized upon their faith, maintaining that it would be an unnecessary insult to the Amish church in which they were baptized. That is, they believe they were already "baptized upon their confession".)

In consideration of this, I would say that in general, the Amish are not really even anabaptist at all, because they do not claim a position consistent with "believers' baptism".

Whilst I would not necessarily disagree, the exact same conditions are present in many other churches, ranging from generic evangelical Christians to megachurches to "conservative Mennonites" to barely-conservative Mennonites.

There are some groups that maintain an environment that promotes a very strong spiritual life. I will refrain from tooting my own church's horn, but I have observed the Old Order River Brethren maintain an environment where spiritually dead people don't feel comfortable. I have been around a BMA church that actually was the same way. And then I have been exposed to some very, very conservative groups (horse and buggy, even) that seem to have very strong spiritual life, and people who insist on being spiritually dead leave it.

On the flip side, some groups seem to have a serious weakness when it comes to a pervasive spiritual deadness where it is tolerated or spiritually dead people even feel quite comfortable.

[Neto]

While I can attest to true spiritual life among the Amish (both preachers and laity), other encounters reveal otherwise, for some individuals. Even among those in whom I sense genuine spiritual life, there is a tendency to view things like the confession made at the time of baptism as a technically right confession, rather than as a personal one. (Or, to spell it out a bit more, they hold that it is not important whether they had a personal faith in Jesus as their savior, but what was essential was that they had made "a right confession", a theologically correct one. Former Amish with this opinion who later move to other congregations will not ask to be baptized upon their faith, maintaining that it would be an unnecessary insult to the Amish church in which they were baptized. That is, they believe they were already "baptized upon their confession".)

In consideration of this, I would say that in general, the Amish are not really even anabaptist at all, because they do not claim a position consistent with "believers' baptism".

Whilst I would not necessarily disagree, the exact same conditions are present in many other churches, ranging from generic evangelical Christians to megachurches to "conservative Mennonites" to barely-conservative Mennonites.

There are some groups that maintain an environment that promotes a very strong spiritual life. I will refrain from tooting my own church's horn, but I have observed the Old Order River Brethren maintain an environment where spiritually dead people don't feel comfortable. I have been around a BMA church that actually was the same way. And then I have been exposed to some very, very conservative groups (horse and buggy, even) that seem to have very strong spiritual life, and people who insist on being spiritually dead leave it.

On the flip side, some groups seem to have a serious weakness when it comes to a pervasive spiritual deadness where it is tolerated or spiritually dead people even feel quite comfortable.

I wonder if in this phrase "... but I have observed the Old Order River Brethren maintain an environment where spiritually dead people don't feel comfortable." you didn't intend to say "uncomfortable".

Anyway, to your point about this problem in other groups, I agree. I was, in fact, talking about people who had left the Amish church, and when they decided to join another type congregation, they didn't want to be baptized again, even though the freely admitted that they had no relationship with God when they were baptized the first time. (I was about to say that I had never talked with any Amish church members about this, but then I remembered that I did ask an Amish coworker at the factory where I was employed. I asked him if a church member came to the ministers and said that he or she hadn't been a Christian at the time they were baptized, and wanted to be baptized again, would they consent. He said that no, they would not. He said why, but I do not remember well enough exactly what he said to be able to accurately express it here.) But I was talking about former Amish. I knew two men who had been close friends from the time they were growing up in the Amish church, then both served together in CPS during WWII. (They are both deceased now, but I still won't name names.) They both joined the Beachy church, as believers, having come to salvation through involvement in the Bible Study movement among young Amish people following the war. But unfortunately this was not approved by the Amish leadership in their area, and both were under threat of excommunication. One felt he should be baptized again, since he hadn't been a believer at that time. The other resisted his friend's decision or suggestion, and said that he had made a "right confession about Jesus Christ". (He also told me that he had only been baptized & joined the church under pressure from his parents, and to avoid the draft. He said he wasn't done doing the things that he knew he couldn't do after joining the church, things like going to professional ball games.) The one who did it met very strong disapproval from the Amish church. (They remained friends for their entire lives in spite of this disagreement, each believing that the other was wrong.)
On the other hand, when I was in 4th or 5th grade (public school) a family moved into our area from Tulsa, and the 2nd oldest boy sort of bragged that he & his brother were in trouble with the police, and that's why his parents had moved out to the country. Later the family started coming to the MB church, and his parents, who said that they had been Sunday School teachers in their old (non-Mennonite) church, later became Christians, saying that they had never realized that what salvation was, that they had never been saved. And yes, they wanted to be baptized again (upon confession of faith).

[Valerie]

Here's todays devotional from Tagliches Manna- the Amish Devotional we get in Homes County (a new daily devotional every other month comes out)
Thursday April 27
Reading: Romans 8:1-14
"Operating by the Spirit
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8: 8

Many of us know the account in Exodus 2 of Moses growing up as a son of Pharaoh's daughter. When he was grown, he had a heart for his brethren, who were in slavery under pharaoh. But his efforts to help them went awry, and he had to flee for his life.

In Acts: 20-29 Stephen, while preaching to the stiff neck juice, gives more details. He said Moses was learning in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was mighty in words and deeds. Was this maybe the reason his first attempts at helping his brethren went awry? No doubt, he was too domineering, but it appears that he was running ahead of his calling, stepping out of God's order, and the operating on his own. If a man wishes to accomplish God's work, he must act and move under God's direction.
We might say that Moses was converted from Egypt to the Hebrews, which was good, but he was not yet converted from himself to God. Can we see the same pattern in our own lives? We may renounce the world and have a zeal for righteousness, but we may not be converted from our own will to the will of Jesus Christ.
In John 3 Jesus said what is born of flesh is flesh. Today's text teaches the difference of walking (operating) in the Spirit, versus walking (operating) in the flesh. We cannot serve God and labor for him by the will of our flesh or self. Rather, we must crucify our flesh, die to self daily, surrender to Jesus, and let Him take over.
By opening the heart to Him, we receive his Spirit. Then we walk in the Spirit, as today's text teaches, and we operate under his guidance as Moses did later in life. Christ's Spirit and Christ Church are fitly joined together, so we look to the church also for direction and guidance. Labors we pursue outside this realm are like the pony in yesterday's article -done on our own.
Am I walking (operating) in the Spirit or in the flesh?

[Ernie]

For the record, in case I was misunderstood...

I have met some Amish who are the most spiritual, ethical, and Christocentric people I have ever met. I am familiar with other Amish who are the exact opposite of this... which makes me hesitant to make blanket statements about any denomination.

[Valerie]

It is possible for any group of Christians to walk away from the teachings of Jesus.
Murders are unknown in most Amish communities.
Having said that, many Amish no longer represent what was held in common by the early Anabaptists and the early church.
Wherever and whenever a group of professing Christians stop studying the Bible, no longer teach the new birth, and no longer expect people to follow Jesus, anything can happen.

I think one needs to get to know the Amish better before making judgments.

Respectfully (and I do realize it's already been pointed out that Ernie didn't say "ALL Amish"), Ernie's 4 statements are rooted in truth, and can be attested by some of us who are acquainted with a fairly broad range of Amish in various states and communities... While I tremendously appreciate your caution against making sweeping judgments, his last statement in particular is absolutely not something to dismiss out of hand as an exaggeration - it's much more of a general reality among the OOA than you may realize.

Having said that, it's fascinating that your husband expresses actual interest in becoming Amish (I'm presuming Old Order, or at least a horse and buggy version?). Is that based primarily on his interaction with holy Spirit filled Amish or on the appeal of the simplicity of Amish life, or perhaps even the cultural separation? I'd love to hear what attracts him there.

It seems his reasons are all of the above. Many conversations have inspired bis faith, and somewhat convicted him of our own worldliness and he has examined and known of their focus on so many Scriptural commands in the New Testament that we somewhat ignore. We also go to many benefit auctions & their witness has really touched us. He's seeing how the culture is becoming more and more antiChrist and even influenced the Church. In a nutshell, he seems to recognize their love for God above all else i think probably "New Order" would suit him better, but NO Amish allow cars.

That being said its not feasible for us at our age, (65) we would not want to be a burden - however I appreciate his desire- and never imagined he'd truly desire that.