Honor the king

[Grace]

Let me remind you that Jesus used demeaning, disrespectful language when he pointed out the sins of the religious leaders of His day and strongly discredited them. I realize the president is not a religious leader, but do think these verses can be applied

Matthew 23
33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.

Yes I have called out the sin of being a borderline pedophile based on the verse, "By their fruits you shall know them". The policies the president and other leaders promote reveal the person/people they are, pushing the sexualization of children (that is what pedophiles do), promoting the killing of unborn babies, denigrating women in sports, etc. If we don't discredit the people and the sins they push and promote upon others, then we are giving those sins credit and credence.

Should we just "whitewash" the sins we see in the president and other leaders?

I am not the Lord and I can only point to

Jud 1:9  Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jud 1:10  But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

If the archangels would not speak against satan… I would find it unacceptable to do what they dared not. Jesus is perfect and unless you believe you are speaking for God like the prophets…

We are not God and neither are we archangels. As born again Christians and under the shed blood of Jesus, we are the Lord's hands and feet to do His work here on earth. And part of that work is to point out sin, from the president to anyone else. Jesus was very clear when He spoke about those who practice sinning.


"Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning". 1 John 3:8 A

As for discrediting our current president, you are right, maybe that should be discontinued, beings he seems to be doing that all his own.

[Josh]

Last I checked, our President is not a king, and the Constitution expressly says that there shall be no such titles of nobility granted by the United States. Our government was expressly set up that our leaders not be viewed as kings or other such elevated kind of royalty.

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't afford the President, the local township trustees, or your garbageman the same respect we should afford every person. But there is nothing special that we owe the President, because the President's office has been expressly set up by the country and document that created the office in the first place asking that it not be afforded any such special honours.

Feel free to honour King Charles III.

[Soloist]

Last I checked, our President is not a king, and the Constitution expressly says that there shall be no such titles of nobility granted by the United States. Our government was expressly set up that our leaders not be viewed as kings or other such elevated kind of royalty.

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't afford the President, the local township trustees, or your garbageman the same respect we should afford every person. But there is nothing special that we owe the President, because the President's office has been expressly set up by the country and document that created the office in the first place asking that it not be afforded any such special honours.

Feel free to honour King Charles III.

Don’t be silly Josh, you know what the verse means. You also know this one and what it means.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

The garbage man has authority over what you put in your trash, or at least his company does. I’m not arguing that the garbage truck driver was ordained by God but I think it’s clear that God ordained our country’s leader for His reasons. He told us to honor him and those who spoke to the leaders of Rome honored them as well in their letters.
Josh, you are part of the problem when you intentionally distort scripture and it will be your undoing.

[RZehr]

If we don't discredit the people and the sins they push and promote upon others, then we are giving those sins credit and credence.

This does not resonate with me. I wonder if you could expound on this a little. Specifically the choice of the word ‘discredit’.

[RZehr]

Last I checked, our President is not a king, and the Constitution expressly says that there shall be no such titles of nobility granted by the United States. Our government was expressly set up that our leaders not be viewed as kings or other such elevated kind of royalty.

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't afford the President, the local township trustees, or your garbageman the same respect we should afford every person. But there is nothing special that we owe the President, because the President's office has been expressly set up by the country and document that created the office in the first place asking that it not be afforded any such special honours.

Feel free to honour King Charles III.

Maybe so. I could subscribe to that. It could be that we are simply to honor the President or Kings, just like we do every person. That idea does seems to be consistent with New Testament teachings. And then the fact that ‘honor the king’ is specifically spelled out, may simply have been done because he was a specifically evil and difficult person to honor, and so it was simply written to clarify that he wasn’t an exception to the directive to honor all people.

[Josh]

Don’t be silly Josh, you know what the verse means. You also know this one and what it means.

Yes. It says "honour the King", which has a specific meaning. In America, we don't have kings or other royalty.

The garbage man has authority over what you put in your trash, or at least his company does. I’m not arguing that the garbage truck driver was ordained by God but I think it’s clear that God ordained our country’s leader for His reasons. He told us to honor him and those who spoke to the leaders of Rome honored them as well in their letters.

And Rome had an absolute ruler comparable to a king, and did not have anything comparable to a President or Prime Minister, which is both an elected office, is not royalty, and is nothing close to absolute power, and the documents conveying authority to the President expressly forbid any titles of nobility or honour.

Of course I think we should respect the magistrate and the laws to the extent we can without disobeying God. But we don't need to give some kind of special treatment to the President that we wouldn't give anyone else.

Josh, you are part of the problem when you intentionally distort scripture and it will be your undoing.

Following the clear reading of scripture is not "intentionally distorting scripture". The Bible does not say anywhere that we have to be silent about the evil deeds of powerful people.

[Josh]

Maybe so. I could subscribe to that. It could be that we are simply to honor the President or Kings, just like we do every person. That idea does seems to be consistent with New Testament teachings. And then the fact that ‘honor the king’ is specifically spelled out, may simply have been done because he was a specifically evil and difficult person to honor, and so it was simply written to clarify that he wasn’t an exception to the directive to honor all people.

I would be content with that interpretation. I don't object to giving special honour to a King, but I definitely do to a U.S. President, as it is not taught by scripture and it is expressly forbidden by America's Constitution.

[Grace]

If we don't discredit the people and the sins they push and promote upon others, then we are giving those sins credit and credence.

This does not resonate with me. I wonder if you could expound on this a little. Specifically the choice of the word ‘discredit’.

I was merely responding to the comment, about pointing out the promotion of sin on the part of the president. My comment was deemed as "the use of demeaning language to discredit him".

[RZehr]

If we don't discredit the people and the sins they push and promote upon others, then we are giving those sins credit and credence.

This does not resonate with me. I wonder if you could expound on this a little. Specifically the choice of the word ‘discredit’.

I was merely responding to the comment, about pointing out the promotion of sin on the part of the president. It was deemed as "the use of demeaning language to discredit him".

I missed that.

[QuietlyListening]

We may not have a king but we have a president who is the governing authority.
Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

I just believe that as believers we are called to be careful how we speak about anyone, especially those who are in authority over us.