Why Obey ?

[Soloist]

Obedience is of two kinds, “have to” and “want to.”[1] The “want to” has its source in the love of the Father, even though no other reward should follow, yea even if the Father should desire to destroy His child. The “have to” has its source in hoping to get paid, or springs from self-love. “Want to” obedience always does as much as possible, without needing to be told to. “Have to” obedience does as little as possible, yea nothing except what is directly commanded. The “want to” is never able to do enough for Him; but he who renders “have to” obedience thinks he is constantly doing too much for Him.

The “want to” rejoices in the chastisement of the Father, even though he may not need chastisement because he has not transgressed in anything. The “have to” wishes to be without chastisement, even though he may do nothing right.

“Want to” obedience has its treasure and righteousness in the Father whom it obeys for the sole purpose of manifesting His righteousness. The “have to” person’s treasure and piety are the works which he does in order to be pious.

The “want to” remains in the house and inherits all the Father has. The “have to” wishes to reject this and receive his legally due pay.

The “have to” looks to the external and to the exact letter of the command of his Lord. The “want to” is concerned as well about the inner witness and the Spirit.

“Have to” obedience is imperfect, and therefore his Lord finds no pleasure in it. “Want to” obedience strives for and attains perfection, and for that reason the Father cannot reject him.

“Want to” obedience is not the opposite of “have to” obedience, as it might appear, but is better and higher. And therefore let him who is obeying because he “has to” seek for the better—the “I want to” obedience. In no way should he have an “I have to do this” attitude.

“Have to” obedience is Mosaic and produces Pharisees and scribes.[2] “Want to” obedience is Christ-like and makes children of God. The “have to” is either occupied with the ceremonies which Moses commanded or with those which people themselves have invented. The “want to” is focused on the love of God and one’s neighbor; yet he also submits himself to the ceremonies for the sake of those who serve because they “have to,” so that he may instruct them in that which is better and lead them to “want to” obedience.

“Have to” obedience produces self-willed and vindictive people; “want to” obedience creates peaceable and mild-natured persons. “Have to” obedience is wearisome and is glad when the job is done. But “want to” obedience is light and directs its gaze to that which endures.

The “have to” is grumpy, deep inside wanting to do his own will; the “want to” would gladly have all men to be as himself. The “have to” is the Old Covenant, and had the promise of temporal happiness. The “want to” is the New Covenant, and has the promise of eternal happiness, namely, the Creator Himself.

The “have to” is a beginning and preparation for happiness; the “want to” is the end and completion itself. The “have to” endured for a time; the “want to” will last forever. The “have to” was a figure and shadow; the “want to” is the reality and truth.

“Have to” obedience was established to reveal and increase sin.[3] “Want to” obedience comes afterward to do away with and eliminate the sin that has been revealed.

[Neto]

Obedience is of two kinds, “have to” and “want to.” ....

What is the source for this quotation? (I would like to have it.) Thanks.

[Soloist]

http://www.thegodlyhome.org/articels/17 ... or-want-to

[RZehr]

I never realized this was a Sattler saying.
When we were growing up and we didn't want to go to church, or wanted to get out of doing something, we would beg our Dad "Do we have to?"
And he would always reply, "Well, you don't have to if you want to." And so then we would try to pretend that it wasn't that we didn't want to do it, in fact we really wanted to, we just unfortunately couldn't.

[Paul]

Anabaptism is keen on obedience and stresses how important it is, which is a good and needful thing. However, I think there may be some differences in how obedience is viewed and why we are required to be obedient. I would like to explore this and welcome any Christian to join in.

In another thread I posted this and have been thinking more about it -

when we know God and why He has given us things to obey, we understand it is because He loves us and wants the best for us. We are abiding in His love when we obey and receive the benefits of obedience. Those who don't understand why God wants obedience and perhaps think following the rules just because they are rules don't know God and why He gives them.

Basically, the question is - why does God give us things to obey ? Is it because He is God and we don't need to know why, just do it ? Is He desiring that our life here be one of suffering and doing without and our fulfilling life will be after this life ? Or does God want us to have the best of living here and now ? Or for other reasons ?

What I meant by my quote above is that, imo, God wants the best life for us here and now, an abundant life of right living, joy and peace in the Holy Spirit and whatever is commanded that we give up is only that in doing so, we gain more real living here and now as well as eternally. Eternal life is also a quality of life that begins now if we believe and pursue it through obedience.

Why do you think God gives us things to obey ? And if it is for our best life now, why do many of us not reflect a life that the unsaved world would be more drawn to want ?

Well the premise that God would want us to have the best life here and now that would attract the unbelieving world, seems to be contradicting something you said in a different thread a while ago, that we should let unbelievers know the cost of following Jesus Christ, illustrated by a sermon of Spurgeon if I recall rightly.

Gods design is not necessarily that we have our best life here and now - just as Jesus's life was one of suffering and humiliation, and likewise that of the disciples and apostles was one of hardship, suffering and often martyrdom. They were doing Gods will, they were obedient, and they had joy and peace in the Holy Spirit, but they were hardly appealing to an unbelieving world. Everybody wants to have their best life here and now, but what Christianity offers requires more patience but is alot more durable, eternal life. Why else would Jesus teach us not to lay up our treasures here on earth, but to lay them up in heaven? Besides, if our best life would be here and now, wouldn't that mean that our eternal life would be in hell?

[Neto]

It is true that the greatest result of obedience to Christ is in the eternal state, but there are also results here & now that make it a better choice, even from a somewhat self-focused point of view. Debauchery may seem fun to some people, for a short time, but it often catches up with you before you can 'check out'. Relationships are better. Health is better. Facing fears is easier. Etc. I've seen a small remote society changed by Jesus' influence, and it is clearly better than it was before.

[Sudsy]

Well the premise that God would want us to have the best life here and now that would attract the unbelieving world, seems to be contradicting something you said in a different thread a while ago, that we should let unbelievers know the cost of following Jesus Christ, illustrated by a sermon of Spurgeon if I recall rightly.

If someone should say 'I can't believe how you Christians have so much love for even those who hate you and are so joyful and peaceful regardless of your circumstances and the good deeds you do are remarkable. How can I have that kind of life ?' If asked this question I have no problem with a statement of what it will cost one to have this life. Jesus said that we basically have to give up or lose the life we now have to find this kind of life. I don't see this as contradictory.

Gods design is not necessarily that we have our best life here and now - just as Jesus's life was one of suffering and humiliation, and likewise that of the disciples and apostles was one of hardship, suffering and often martyrdom. They were doing Gods will, they were obedient, and they had joy and peace in the Holy Spirit, but they were hardly appealing to an unbelieving world. Everybody wants to have their best life here and now, but what Christianity offers requires more patience but is alot more durable, eternal life. Why else would Jesus teach us not to lay up our treasures here on earth, but to lay them up in heaven? Besides, if our best life would be here and now, wouldn't that mean that our eternal life would be in hell?

But what then did Jesus mean when He said that satan was a thief and cheat to rob us of real living but Jesus came to give us abundant life ? I think the confusion comes when we view the abundant life we can have here and now to involve stuff of this world or being free from sufferings. Jesus did say to lay up treasures in heaven because there will also be future reward to consider by how we live now. Our best life will be when we are at home with Jesus but I believe Jesus also provides a life here and now that is the next best thing to heaven.

I believe most of Christianity has not entered into what is available to us here and now and Christianity is often not an attraction into a Kingdom way of living. My father gave my mom a hard time for 2 years before he became a Christian. Her steadfastness and joy he could not shake with his persecuting. One day, he couldn't resist hearing the joyful singing and hand clapping coming out of a little Pentecostal church window and had to check it out for himself and there he met Jesus. I'm thinking some represent a form of Christianity that is dull and unattractive and seems to major on the suffering and doing without. Others represent a form of Christianity that is shallow and works on emotions and this life too is often dependent on environments. But then there are those who are the same 7 days a week in any and all situations. My grandma was one of these. Full of joy and love and peace that opened many doors for her sharing her faith. I'm just saying I don't see much of this anymore and I know I am not living in this way yet I believe it is the life Jesus has for us but we first must believe it possible. There is a Kingdom now dimension and few there be that have found it.

Here is a question - If someone says 'why should I become a Christ follower ?' what would your answer be ?

[KingdomBuilder]

Basically, the question is - why does God give us things to obey ? Is it because He is God and we don't need to know why, just do it ? Is He desiring that our life here be one of suffering and doing without and our fulfilling life will be after this life ? Or does God want us to have the best of living here and now ? Or for other reasons ?

Of these, I'd go with the first option. As mentioned, we are to be like children, sheep, and servants of the Lord. Should it not be enough to understand that we are mere mortals interacting with the Lord? He is life and to not obey Him is foolishness. If that doesn't inspire obedience, then some serious introspection is in order.

To consider the other options-

Is He desiring that our life here be one of suffering and doing without and our fulfilling life will be after this life ?

Ahh.. this is the view of far too many. This implies that the Lord's commands are burdens. We are told, though, that his yoke is easy and his burden is light. His "rules" are not merely a list of things we cannot do that devoid us of life. In fact, as alluded to earlier, He and His words are life.

Or does God want us to have the best of living here and now ?

I think He does want us to have the best within reason. We are subject to the happenings of this temporal life- we are tempted, we have disappointments, and we face tragedy. Does God exist to merely plow over reality to make us rich, healthy, and happy? I don't think so- this kind of thought drives the prosperity "gospel".

[Adam]

But then there are those who are the same 7 days a week in any and all situations. My grandma was one of these. Full of joy and love and peace that opened many doors for her sharing her faith. I'm just saying I don't see much of this anymore and I know I am not living in this way yet I believe it is the life Jesus has for us but we first must believe it possible. There is a Kingdom now dimension and few there be that have found it.

Whatever it is that is preventing you from living this way right now is probably similar to what is preventing other Christians. Best thing for each of us to do is start with ourselves and live that abundant life that Jesus has given us. But we shouldn't be surprised if many in the world do not appreciate the inner joy that we have.

[bible]Matthew7,14[/bible]

[Paul]

Here is a question - If someone says 'why should I become a Christ follower ?' what would your answer be ?

My answer would be, because the righteous wrath of God abides on you because of your sin, and you will have to stand before the Holy Judge of the universe when you die. You see if people come to faith for that reason, because they truly have repented from their sin, and fear God, they will not fall away when hardship comes. The reason they started to believe was not because of any temporal benefits, the reason was to escape the wrath to come and to strive to enter into the Kingdom and receive eternal life.

I have heard the comparison made with people sitting on an airplane, one person is told he should put on his parachute because it will improve his flight, he eventually puts it on, but after a while he notices that it isn't really as comfortable as he thought.. also people start laughing at him for having on a parachute, so he takes it off and throws it aside.. he even feels a bit cheated by the one that told him it would improve his flight. Another man is given a parachute, but is told that the plane is going to crash soon and he will need that parachute to save his life, well the man puts it on and no matter how the other passengers ridicule him, he refuses to let go of it because he knows the reason he put on his parachute is the jump that is to come, and his life is more dear to him than whether or not he has a comfortable flight. Likewise we need to put on the Lord Jesus Christ - our parachute of salvation so to speak - for the right reasons.

Now I know you are not talking about the prosperity Gospel, and not purely about temporal happiness in a worldly sense. I think you are talking about provoking others to jealousy by Kingdom living, and yes I hope we can provoke others to jealousy by living a God fearing, pure, obedient and holy life, filled with love towards God and our neighbour. But even though God can use all means to draw people to Himself, I think most people might not be drawn that way (or drawn into a superficial faith), unless it's a spouse or someone very close to them they can't get around, as in the case of your father. Because unbelievers by nature simply do not desire God or a godly life. Imo our message to an unbelieving world should be to flee the wrath to come, and our life and behavior should undergird that message because we ourselves live holy lives, taking up our cross, striving to enter into Gods Kingdom, seperate from the world. That way, when people do come to put their trust in Jesus Christ, it will be for the right reasons, not for a simple lifestyle or a sense of a loving community, but to truly follow Him, and receive forgiveness of sin and eternal life.