Is there a relationship between eschatology and how one experiences society

[Nomad]

One of the interesting things about modern eschatology is how recent it all is. Postmillenialism can at least be traced back to the Reformers circa 1600s, but chiliasm, millennialism, premillennialism, rapture eschatology, and dispensationalism are all solidly 1800s and later inventions and really did not take root until they found the fertile soil of individualistic American religion.

Historic millennialism (aka chiliasm) is called "historic" because it was the view of some of the early church fathers.

Perhaps with a very imminent millennium, but I cannot find any early church father who felt the literal 1,000 year reign would happen 2,000 years (or more) later. Thinking that is an entirely modern view.

I guess I'm fine with it Premillenialism/ Pretrib being modern if its true. Amillennialism was supposedly started with Augustine in his book "City of God" written 426 AD...hundreds of years after Christ. Probably every eschatological system has a name with a beginning and each system claims their beginning started during Bible times.

[Josh]

I guess I'm fine with it Premillenialism/ Pretrib being modern if its true. Amillennialism was supposedly started with Augustine in his book "City of God" written 426 AD...hundreds of years after Christ. Probably every eschatological system has a name with a beginning and each system claims their beginning started during Bible times.

I would disagree and say amillennialism is clear in scripture and was established in the New Testament by the apostles.

[Nomad]

I guess I'm fine with it Premillenialism/ Pretrib being modern if its true. Amillennialism was supposedly started with Augustine in his book "City of God" written 426 AD...hundreds of years after Christ. Probably every eschatological system has a name with a beginning and each system claims their beginning started during Bible times.

I would disagree and say amillennialism is clear in scripture and was established in the New Testament by the apostles.

Thats fine. We can disagree. I'm not trying to change your mind. I worship with other brethren at our church who have differing views on the millennium and it doesn't effect our bond.

[Josh]

I guess I'm fine with it Premillenialism/ Pretrib being modern if its true. Amillennialism was supposedly started with Augustine in his book "City of God" written 426 AD...hundreds of years after Christ. Probably every eschatological system has a name with a beginning and each system claims their beginning started during Bible times.

I would disagree and say amillennialism is clear in scripture and was established in the New Testament by the apostles.

Thats fine. We can disagree. I'm not trying to change your mind. I worship with other brethren at our church who have differing views on the millennium and it doesn't effect our bond.

I’m glad you and I can relate on that basis.

Unfortunately, eschatology ranks as probably the single most divisive issue in Protestant evangelical Christianity of the last century. It is interesting to consider why this is so. Either it really matters a lot, or it doesn’t matter much at all.

[MaxPC]

I strongly believe that people view of end times influenced their thinking. I know of at least one church the split because some believed so.

However I don’t believe there is nearly 100% overlap though.

Not sure how to answer the poll though. Overreach according to what? If the government forbids meeting for church, I believe that it is intruding on territory that belongs to the church and God. So where that was the case, I’d say yes. But not everywhere did the government overstep like this. I do not believe in a pre-trib eschatology, but it may turn out that I am incorrect.

These are my observations as well.

[ohio jones]

One of the interesting things about modern eschatology is how recent it all is. Postmillenialism can at least be traced back to the Reformers circa 1600s, but chiliasm, millennialism, premillennialism, rapture eschatology, and dispensationalism are all solidly 1800s and later inventions and really did not take root until they found the fertile soil of individualistic American religion.

Historic millennialism (aka chiliasm) is called "historic" because it was the view of some of the early church fathers.

Perhaps with a very imminent millennium, but I cannot find any early church father who felt the literal 1,000 year reign would happen 2,000 years (or more) later. Thinking that is an entirely modern view.

Certainly some of the millenniarians expected an imminent fulfillment. But there's at least one who put it farther out, at least assuming his historic chronology corresponded somewhat with that of Ussher.

Epistle of Barnabas 15:3-5

Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it. Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end. And He rested on the seventh day. this He meaneth; when His Son shall come, and shall abolish the time of the Lawless One, and shall judge the ungodly, and shall change the sun and the moon and the stars, then shall he truly rest on the seventh day.

[cmbl]

It may be that how one experiences society affects one's eschatology. George M. Marsden finds that the late-19th century changes in American society removed evangelicals from a place of prominence. Postmillenial optimism gave way to premillenial pessimism about the direction of society. Marsden's books Fundamentalism and American Culture and Understanding Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism both discuss these societal changes as preparing fertile ground for acceptance of the new doctrine of dispensational premillenialism.

[PetrChelcicky]

I suppose that I qualify as a naive premillenialist, i.e. when I first read the Book of Revelations I of course read it as a prognosis of things to ccme. I have never learned about amillenials or postmillenials before I detected the American internet.
And I insist (against for instance Nomad) that premillenialism was the predominant conception in Reformation times, for Luther as well as for Menno Simons.
On the other hand, "dispensationalism" has seemed to me a theological innovation of 19th century evangelicals which only arrived in Germany via direct (small scale) influence of the Plymouth Brethren et alii.

[PetrChelcicky]

My personal experience of society - I am 71 years old now - is mostly that i am flabbergasted how much has disappeared or is just disappearing. A lot of things I got to know in my youth and then deemed as "eternal" progresses and insights. For instance "liberal democracy" - maybe it survives for a while but it is definitely more endangered than ever since the 1920/1930s. Or "science" and "scientifical truth" as a corrective to political agitation (and not its mere continuation). - Well, all those changes have their advantages: They make it more easy for the old people to say good-bye to the world!

[Nomad]

I suppose that I qualify as a naive premillenialist, i.e. when I first read the Book of Revelations I of course read it as a prognosis of things to ccme. I have never learned about amillenials or postmillenials before I detected the American internet.
And I insist (against for instance Nomad) that premillenialism was the predominant conception in Reformation times, for Luther as well as for Menno Simons.
On the other hand, "dispensationalism" has seemed to me a theological innovation of 19th century evangelicals which only arrived in Germany via direct (small scale) influence of the Plymouth Brethren et alii.

I dont understand. What are you saying against me? Nothing I read in your statement seems against what I said or believe. I am like you, a naive premillennialist.