Soteriology and related matters

[Ernie]

The OOs would simply say, that is not our way, but we will focus on what we believe we should do and won’t tell other groups what to do. The fundamentalist believes he knows what every Christian should believe and think.

That is my observation as well. Speaking in generalities of course...

[Sudsy]

The OOs would simply say, that is not our way, but we will focus on what we believe we should do and won’t tell other groups what to do. The fundamentalist believes he knows what every Christian should believe and think.

That is my observation as well. Speaking in generalities of course...

So, there are some here that do not consider themselves fundamentalists but by their posts they, in practise, are.

[Josh]

The OOs would simply say, that is not our way, but we will focus on what we believe we should do and won’t tell other groups what to do. The fundamentalist believes he knows what every Christian should believe and think.

That is my observation as well. Speaking in generalities of course...

So, there are some here that do not consider themselves fundamentalists but by their posts they, in practise, are.

Maybe I should be more specific. The fundamentalist believes that through logical deduction from the New Testament, we can determine what every Christian should believe and think. (Different fundamentalists may disagree on the particulars, but they all agree that it is possible to figure it out.)

The Old Order person thinks he can't personally know exactly what every Christian is supposed to believe and think. To him, that is "high-mindedness" and pride.

[joshuabgood]

That is my observation as well. Speaking in generalities of course...

So, there are some here that do not consider themselves fundamentalists but by their posts they, in practise, are.

Maybe I should be more specific. The fundamentalist believes that through logical deduction from the New Testament, we can determine what every Christian should believe and think. (Different fundamentalists may disagree on the particulars, but they all agree that it is possible to figure it out.)

The Old Order person thinks he can't personally know exactly what every Christian is supposed to believe and think. To him, that is "high-mindedness" and pride.

This is stated very well.

[Sudsy]

That is my observation as well. Speaking in generalities of course...

So, there are some here that do not consider themselves fundamentalists but by their posts they, in practise, are.

Maybe I should be more specific. The fundamentalist believes that through logical deduction from the New Testament, we can determine what every Christian should believe and think. (Different fundamentalists may disagree on the particulars, but they all agree that it is possible to figure it out.)

The Old Order person thinks he can't personally know exactly what every Christian is supposed to believe and think. To him, that is "high-mindedness" and pride.

On this issue, I would lean toward the Old Order view on this. I think pride is a big factor.

[Valerie]

One of the more interesting aspects of evangelical Protestant Christianity is its insistence that a Christian life is defined not by obedience to Jesus, Peter, and Paul, but the opposite: they teach that a true Christian doesn’t even try to obey Jesus’ and the apostle’s commandments, but rather revels in their disobedience as proof of how they rely on salvation via grace alone.

It is akin to a man who tells me how strong his marriage is because he has frequent affairs; to prove his wife’s unconditional love for him, he must need make sure never to be faithful to her or to please her, but rather must go out of his way to make sure his marriage is not built on “good works” but instead “grace and faith alone”.

I'm sorry Josh, but I have been going to pentecostal/charismatic/evangelical churches since I was young, and surrendered to Christ at a non-denominational Church when i was 15. So for over 50cyears, although Grace was emphasized, obedience was also stressed. Where i may see a similarity to what you convey is that in my background, Emphasis is/was on the finished work of Christ on the Cross as our propitiation for sin. In this setting, there is a tendency to avoid making our walk "about me" instead of about Him, lest we make that great sacrifice He paid of less significance. There is also the concern of appearing legalistic. This of course can seem like cheap grace

[Josh]

I'm sorry Josh, but I have been going to pentecostal/charismatic/evangelical churches since I was young, and surrendered to Christ at a non-denominational Church when i was 15. So for over 50cyears, although Grace was emphasized, obedience was also stressed. Where i may see a similarity to what you convey is that in my background, Emphasis is/was on the finished work of Christ on the Cross as our propitiation for sin. In this setting, there is a tendency to avoid making our walk "about me" instead of about Him, lest we make that great sacrifice He paid of less significance. There is also the concern of appearing legalistic. This of course can seem like cheap grace

This was true from age 0 - 6 for me in an Australian charismatic church. (I did not experience much faith formation there, but my parents and elder brother did.)

By the time we moved to America, Calvinist doctrine seemed to have overtaken, particularly radio preachers. We listened to WCRF 103.3 a lot when we moved to America and they always had standard Calvinist / Reformed Baptist "Romans Road" type of preaching messages. Unfortunately the depiction above was my experience, my younger brother's, and my nephew's (the latter experienced this in Hillsong).

Nowadays we find refuge in Anabaptist churches, and believe victory over sin is possible.