Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

[RZehr]

Nearly all divisions in Christendom are not in Anabaptist groups. It is not the fault of plain people that divisions exist.

I certainly wasn’t blaming plain people for divisions in the church, but they have as many divisions as any other group in Christendom. At least from what I have come to learn, some groups have divided over the use of modern means of fastening clothing- this could have been false information but if I recall correctly one Amish group was against buttons or Velcro? I think my underlining question should be - “where do we draw the line in adornment? Can we fellowship with one another and share communion if we don’t hold the same convictions regarding adornment/external appearance?”

If you believe in the rapture when true believers are snatched off the earth to be with the Lord, it would seem to me we all will end up in white robes ('down by the river side' . What a dilema if we can't wear our religious garb that we wear down here. Sorry, silly thought just popped into my head. Carry on.

Do you mean there’s a prescribed uniform there?

[Soloist]

If you believe in the rapture when true believers are snatched off the earth to be with the Lord, it would seem to me we all will end up in white robes ('down by the river side' . What a dilema if we can't wear our religious garb that we wear down here. Sorry, silly thought just popped into my head. Carry on.

Do you mean there’s a prescribed uniform there?

Next thing one of you will be telling me there are rules there too

[Josh]

Nearly all divisions in Christendom are not in Anabaptist groups. It is not the fault of plain people that divisions exist.

I certainly wasn’t blaming plain people for divisions in the church, but they have as many divisions as any other group in Christendom. At least from what I have come to learn, some groups have divided over the use of modern means of fastening clothing- this could have been false information but if I recall correctly one Amish group was against buttons or Velcro? I think my underlining question should be - “where do we draw the line in adornment? Can we fellowship with one another and share communion if we don’t hold the same convictions regarding adornment/external appearance?”

These divisions are usually about much deeper issues than just some article of clothing. Virtually every group of Anabaptists is fine fellowshipping with others who have different styles of dress. They are not fine fellowshipping with those whose substance of Christian life is significantly different.

My own group hasn’t divided since 1859 and since then a grand total of one congregation back in the 1960s has left our church group, so it is also possible to maintain unity amongst Anabaptists. The Old Order Amish have also maintained unity for a long time. Their clothing styles are significantly different in PA and Ohio and they even have different standards about things like e-bikes and phones.

[Heirbyadoption]

My own group hasn’t divided since 1859 and since then a grand total of one congregation back in the 1960s has left our church group, so it is also possible to maintain unity amongst Anabaptists. The Old Order Amish have also maintained unity for a long time. Their clothing styles are significantly different in PA and Ohio and they even have different standards about things like e-bikes and phones.

Maintaining visible denominational unity is definitely a lot easier with some level of OTC doctrine (explicit or implied).

[Ernie]

Amen! I agree. I think you said this well. I wonder at what point can anabaptists share “communion” (I’m not sure what title everyone uses for the agape/communion time)with those who don’t look like them? I’ve found that I have to be at a certain spiritual level to take communion. The work of Christ has taken decades in me and I’m still not finished so am I not to partake of communion until I am either submitted to ALL of the teachings of my conservative Anabaptist congregation or am convicted on these things? May the Lord be glorified in our discussion!

Of Anabaptists churches that practice headcovering, only a small percentage are ok communing with people who don't have similar standards as themselves. But that is not because they believe that all other people are lost. It has to do with their understanding of communion and who it should be practiced with. Few Plain Anabaptists wish to commune with anyone other than their own church and few wish to practice communion more than 2-4 times per year. It is sort of a "family thing".

The concept of communion is very different in other denominations. Catholics and Orthodox folks who attend church frequently look forward to communion many times a year and can do so in many parts of the globe. From what I can tell, most Protestants who attend church frequently are glad to be included in as many communions as they are allowed.

So there is a huge difference in how most Plain Anabaptists look at communion, vs. most other devout Christians around the world.

[Ernie]

This is how my husband and I feel also. I’ve become a nervous wreck over how I look (if I look plain enough) and it’s to the point that I’m more self focused now than I was before when I would care much more about loving and serving others and wore my wedding band. I’m genuinely interested in learning as much as I can about living a surrendered life to Christ and building His kingdom and yet I’m struggling with all of these unwritten rules or standards.. and sometimes double standards.

Do you care to say what kind of Anabaptist church you are trying to assimilate into?

https://www.plainnews.org/wp-content/up ... -01-11.pdf

[Ernie]

Lakeadams,

I'm curious whether the following describes or resonates with you?

Our people are those who endeavor to take the teachings of the New Testament very seriously and intend to live and teach the doctrine and sound faith that was delivered to the Apostles as described in the New Testament. In general, we believe that churches today should believe and practice what was commonly believed and practiced by the New Testament church.
We are orthodox in that we ascribe to the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed. We believe that there are two kingdoms, the kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world. We believe that a person cannot be part of both kingdoms. A person must only have allegiance to one kingdom. We believe it is important to be unspotted from the world and separated unto God. We believe it is important to not resist evil but rather return good for evil. We believe it is important to not lay up treasure on earth but rather lay up treasures in heaven. We believe that much harm has affected the Christian church whenever these beliefs have been compromised.
Many other historical practices of the church have been discontinued or discounted in much of Christendom over the centuries and we believe that these should continue to be practiced. Among these are stranger and pilgrim living, modest and simple attire, head-covering for women, non-wearing of jewelry, non-swearing of oaths, marriage for life, self-examination before communion as well as collective discernment, church discipline, and a community-based church model that shares with those in need.
We believe that churches will experience negative consequences if they permit a person to join the church before that person has fully surrendered to God. We believe that churches will experience negative consequences if they withhold baptism, the right hand of fellowship, and communion due to “unnecessary burdens” being asked of persons before they are publicly recognized as being part of the family of God.
We believe that love for one another is the sign by which the world will know that we are followers of Jesus.

This statement is a work in progress...

Someone who is coming out of a setting where you just commune with anyone who professes faith in Christ, is feeling a need to give his children some direction about who to associate with. He wonders, "How can I explain to them, 'These are our people'?"
So that was the reason for the description above. These are the folks I am comfortable communing with.

[Lakeadams]

This is how my husband and I feel also. I’ve become a nervous wreck over how I look (if I look plain enough) and it’s to the point that I’m more self focused now than I was before when I would care much more about loving and serving others and wore my wedding band. I’m genuinely interested in learning as much as I can about living a surrendered life to Christ and building His kingdom and yet I’m struggling with all of these unwritten rules or standards.. and sometimes double standards.

Do you care to say what kind of Anabaptist church you are trying to assimilate into?

https://www.plainnews.org/wp-content/up ... -01-11.pdf

I’m not sure what they would be considered… there is a group in roachville NB we might go visit…we’re currently in New Brunswick, Canada. We have very close friends in followers of the way groups who we found back when we first started seeking more meaningful fellowship and brothers and sisters who held to a more literal interpretation of the sermon on the mount and the headcovering passages in 1 Cor 11

My husband refers to us as “inbetween-ers ” because we’re too conservative for the average evangelical church, but we’re probably too worldly to our anabaptist brothers and sisters. We’d much prefer to give up some of our “liberties” for deep, meaningful fellowship (we love how followers of the way meets in homes) and we’d like to REALLY live life together as neither my husband or I have Christian family members to rely on in trials or rejoice with in the good times (at least not on a spiritual level). I think because we haven’t had fellowship for some time now, we’ve become more laid back about things that aren’t sinful, but don’t edify us. We need accountability and discipleship. I hope this all makes sense! If anyone knows of anyone in the Southern New Brunswick area we’d be grateful if someone could connect us.

[Lakeadams]

Lakeadams,

I'm curious whether the following describes or resonates with you?

Our people are those who endeavor to take the teachings of the New Testament very seriously and intend to live and teach the doctrine and sound faith that was delivered to the Apostles as described in the New Testament. In general, we believe that churches today should believe and practice what was commonly believed and practiced by the New Testament church.
We are orthodox in that we ascribe to the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed. We believe that there are two kingdoms, the kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world. We believe that a person cannot be part of both kingdoms. A person must only have allegiance to one kingdom. We believe it is important to be unspotted from the world and separated unto God. We believe it is important to not resist evil but rather return good for evil. We believe it is important to not lay up treasure on earth but rather lay up treasures in heaven. We believe that much harm has affected the Christian church whenever these beliefs have been compromised.
Many other historical practices of the church have been discontinued or discounted in much of Christendom over the centuries and we believe that these should continue to be practiced. Among these are stranger and pilgrim living, modest and simple attire, head-covering for women, non-wearing of jewelry, non-swearing of oaths, marriage for life, self-examination before communion as well as collective discernment, church discipline, and a community-based church model that shares with those in need.
We believe that churches will experience negative consequences if they permit a person to join the church before that person has fully surrendered to God. We believe that churches will experience negative consequences if they withhold baptism, the right hand of fellowship, and communion due to “unnecessary burdens” being asked of persons before they are publicly recognized as being part of the family of God.
We believe that love for one another is the sign by which the world will know that we are followers of Jesus.

This statement is a work in progress...

Someone who is coming out of a setting where you just commune with anyone who professes faith in Christ, is feeling a need to give his children some direction about who to associate with. He wonders, "How can I explain to them, 'These are our people'?"
So that was the reason for the description above. These are the folks I am comfortable communing with.

I think this is very close to where we’re at except of course that we haven’t surrendered some things like ALL jewelry. That isn’t because we cherish our wedding band or anything it’s just because it’s a symbol of our commitment for life to each other especially in a day and age where people call themselves partners rather than husband and wife and choose to live together rather than make vows before the Lord. I’m not saying we would never come to the same conclusion as you, but everything the Lord has been doing in us we’ve been obedient to and we haven’t felt any sort of guilt or condemnation for wearing our plain bands EXCEPT in the presence of our brothers and sisters out of love and respect for them. Two kingdom theology is new to us and we embraced it wholeheartedly! It makes sense and we can see that was what Jesus was teaching. We also believe in the headcovering … one thing we don’t believe about it is that it is not for modesty reasons (for us). I love it, it is a constant reminder of who I am in Christ, it is a great witnessing tool (as long as we look friendly and approachable) and it honours my husband as my head!

I’ll be the first to admit I am a mess. I’ve come out of a very confusing upbringing with some religion mixed in here and there (Catholic, Anglican, evangelical Baptist). The only person I ever saw cover their head was a lady who wore plain dress and never smiled- she terrified me! When I was baptized in the baptist church I suddenly had a hunger for the word and I actually opened my Bible at home and started reading. I couldn’t get enough and we just kept finding teaching after teaching that we weren’t living out and our pastor would tell us everything was cultural or not possible to live out. In the last few years we’ve encountered some loving anabaptists and some harsh anabaptists. I lost my joy in obeying the Lord for a while after those personal hurts and now I’m wanting to get that back and find a church family who will love us and see our commitment to Christ even though we’re maybe not quite as sanctified as many Anabaptists who were born and raised with this doctrine - what a blessing for them! I tend to swing to the extreme end of legalism … I am a natural rule follower. I don’t like getting in trouble and I fear God telling me to depart from Him because I’m a worker of iniquity. We are most in need of leadership

God bless you Ernie!

[Ernie]

I think this is very close to where we’re at except of course that we haven’t surrendered some things like ALL jewelry. That isn’t because we cherish our wedding band or anything it’s just because it’s a symbol of our commitment for life to each other especially in a day and age where people call themselves partners rather than husband and wife and choose to live together rather than make vows before the Lord.

Then I expect we would be very comfortable communing with you all!
We have a number of friends who have taken a similar position as you on wedding bands, and we consider them to be like us in the "avoiding jewelry" camp.