Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

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Lakeadams
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Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by Lakeadams »

I want to ask a question without hurting anyone or making anyone feel like I’m trying to be divisive… I have been searching the scriptures and the passages about women not adorning themselves seem pretty straightforward, but I see so many anabaptists of different denominations with braided hair. Why do anabaptists take not wearing gold literally, but disregard braiding of hair? I know the NASB translators added “merely” to the text in 1 Peter 3:3-4 but the word “fine” was also added so that the text read that we shouldn’t put on fine apparel rather than having the text just say to not put on apparel (which would indicate we should walk around naked if we’re being literal). I appreciate this forum so much and look forward to reading your responses! Thank you in advance for your gentleness as I’m still very much learning and growing in my walk with the Lord :)
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by Soloist »

I had a lengthy post and promptly lost it when my wife took a look. So here goes the recreation…

This has been something I’ve puzzled over before… when my children were young, we were attending a conservative “Charity” church and all the Mennonite background people had braids on their children. The other families were split between braids and pony tails. The non braided influenced us, and it made sense at the time. As our girls got older, we moved to a conservative Mennonite church.

It seemed that our children’s hair was always messy and braids kept their hair neat. Particularly double braids… we have gone back-and-forth on it a little bit but generally have a stance of just a plain simple braid or two side braids. It seems like French braids, and side braids joining the main braid (which were the two styles we basically saw outside of a single or a double) seemed too fancy for us. I’m not willing to condemn them as not following scripture (some do it to keep the hair out of the face), but I’m not willing to do it myself. We saw these styles at the charity church and at conservative Mennonite. We saw some buns at Charity and generally we see ones on the older girls at the Conservative Mennonite church before they started wearing the cap. Sometimes younger girls too, and the bun would be one alternative if a member of the Mennonites had a conviction.

If I had to sum it up, there were some at Charity that seems to object to braids, and it didn’t seem to be a thing with Mennonites we knew. The Mennonites objected to ponytails and the like because of its loose flowing aspects and sloppiness (at least that was my wife’s impression). Some objected to fancy clips and other ornamentation

It does seem like there were fairly elaborately braided hairstyles in the Roman/Grecian times. I don’t know that Paul was not talking about simple braids, but like the clothing, I think he probably was addressing the style.

It does seem like the hair styles get more elaborate as the head covering shrinks (like puffed hair and side braids going to the bun).
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by Josh »

A Nationwide book once said flatly "This Bible verse does not include the simple braids our young girls wear" with no further explanation.

The longer answer is that most conservative Mennonites have embraced fundamentalism, particularly in their reading of scripture, which means they accept lots of inherent contradictions. So they will make a big deal about not wearing gold or costly jewellery, extending this even to things that aren't gold like silver and to wedding bands in general.

Yet conversely, if quizzed about this verse that seems to rather obviously teach against wearing visible braids for outward adornment, they will either resort to an exegesis that the Greek word for braids actually refers to weaving in coloured threads which was a Greek custom at the time (which is indeed true), or else that what matters is the "principle" here of complex hairstyles and so a "simple" braid is somehow OK, despite the plain reading of the text.

Over time, the fundamentalists find their positions growing weaker and weaker, and drifting towards the world. Meanwhile, the Old Orders are content to have the same, simple hairstyles they always had, and also content to read the scripture without turning it into legislation. They just think they should have plain, simple, and modest hairstyles, and stick to that.
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by steve-in-kville »

Lakeadams wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 7:51 pm I want to ask a question without hurting anyone or making anyone feel like I’m trying to be divisive… I have been searching the scriptures and the passages about women not adorning themselves seem pretty straightforward, but I see so many anabaptists of different denominations with braided hair. Why do anabaptists take not wearing gold literally, but disregard braiding of hair? I know the NASB translators added “merely” to the text in 1 Peter 3:3-4 but the word “fine” was also added so that the text read that we shouldn’t put on fine apparel rather than having the text just say to not put on apparel (which would indicate we should walk around naked if we’re being literal). I appreciate this forum so much and look forward to reading your responses! Thank you in advance for your gentleness as I’m still very much learning and growing in my walk with the Lord :)
In my 25+ years among conservative anabaptist, I have never heard of standards on girl's hairstyles. Perhaps there was an unwritten, yet commonly understood rule, but I never knew of one. And I have seen some pretty fancy hairdo's at that.

Now that I would be considered "progressive" on the Anabaptist spectrum, none of my girls has cut their hair much less went to a salon or gotten a fancy hairdo. Some still braid their hair and most sport pony tails.

IMO, I feel we have a tendency to over-think subjects like this. Perhaps we miss the forest for the trees fits here?
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Lakeadams
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by Lakeadams »

Thank you to everyone who has replied so far.. I appreciate the wisdom!
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by Neto »

Between the words "whose let it be not the outward braiding of hair" and "putting on of gold" is the Greek word kai, which may be either a coordinate ('and'), or a non-coordinate. The Louw & Nida Greek Lexicon describes this second case as "a marker of an additive relation which is not coordinate". Then they give the following examples for English: "and also, in addition".

So if taken as the second case here, then the injunction was against the ostentatious practice of weaving gold strands or other gold (ie expensive) jewelry (or perhaps also expensive fabrics) into the braids. So if that is the correct interpretation, the injunction was not against the braids themselves, but the incorporation of additional showy stuff into a normal braid.

So yes, there are at least these two possible interpretations - either no braids at all, or no braids with other ostentatious stuff woven into the otherwise normal and acceptable braids. And as Josh already alluded to, the latter was actually a known practice of the wealthy class of that culture and time.
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by mike »

steve-in-kville wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:06 am In my 25+ years among conservative anabaptist, I have never heard of standards on girl's hairstyles. Perhaps there was an unwritten, yet commonly understood rule, but I never knew of one. And I have seen some pretty fancy hairdo's at that.
Our conservative Mennonite church doesn't have written standards for girls' hairstyles who don't wear head coverings. There are some pretty obvious unwritten traditions, such as the fact that all the young girls wear their hair in braids, but nobody ever talked about it to us. My daughters generally wear their hair up, and nobody seems to mind. Kind of like this.

Image
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by steve-in-kville »

Lakeadams wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:05 am Thank you to everyone who has replied so far.. I appreciate the wisdom!
You're gonna find that the plain churches are full of "unwritten yet commonly understood" standards that everyone just always did and, for the most part, no reason to change.

The school we used to send our children to was full of them. As soon as someone stepped beyond the norm, and someone fussed, then it was made a rule. Got frustrating after while.
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by RZehr »

I think that the verse about braiding hair is practiced by the Mennonites by separating unconverted children from converted adults. Once a girl is converted, she puts her hair up and covers it.

Leading with "please be gentle"? You must have spent some time reading this forum before posting. :D
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Re: Adornment… please be gentle I am learning and not from an anabaptist background

Post by Soloist »

RZehr wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:42 pm I think that the verse about braiding hair is practiced by the Mennonites by separating unconverted children from converted adults. Once a girl is converted, she puts her hair up and covers it.

Leading with "please be gentle"? You must have spent some time reading this forum before posting. :D
Is this why those children often have their own table? Lest they pollute our high and lofty words and corrupt us with their braids? :mrgreen:
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