Setting legal disputes in the church

[mike]

1 Cor. 6:6 When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!

4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers? 7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!

I've been thinking about this. Have you ever seen this happen? What are examples of legal disputes that a church should be able to settle? I've read criticism against churches for attempting to deal with issues that they have no expertise in. So what are these kinds of things that Paul says the church should be able to make judgments about? What is it about unbelievers that makes them unsuited to judge in matters between Christians?

[RZehr]

Money. Loaning/borrowing. Medical expense qualifications.

[mike]

Money. Loaning/borrowing. Medical expense qualifications.

Money issues being settled in the church makes a lot of sense.

[steve-in-kville]

I know of only one. A parent was on her deathbed and, as the story goes, her adult son tricked her into changing certain terms of the will, pushing the bulk of the inheritance his direction and away from his siblings It was discovered when it was time to settle the estate and the church did get involved. IIRC, they later discovered they should have hired a lawyer as too many people were "experts" on estate law, and there were too many emotions involved.

[mike]

I know of only one. A parent was on her deathbed and, as the story goes, her adult son tricked her into changing certain terms of the will, pushing the bulk of the inheritance his direction and away from his siblings It was discovered when it was time to settle the estate and the church did get involved. IIRC, they later discovered they should have hired a lawyer as too many people were "experts" on estate law, and there were too many emotions involved.

If it is a question over a legal issue, it wouldn't be ethical for the church to advise an illegal resolution. I can see where it isn't really the church's role to interpret or apply the law. Yet the church has a lot of interest in the ethical behavior of its members, and of course their individual and corporate spiritual and relational health, and still could be involved even though legal advice may also be sought out.

[steve-in-kville]

If it is a question over a legal issue, it wouldn't be ethical for the church to advise an illegal resolution.

The church got involved thinking it was a simple misunderstanding not realizing how deep and involved it really was. By that time, the rumor mill had done its job and people formed their own opinions based on said rumor mill.

As they say, the court of public opinion doesn't hold a law degree.

[Ken]

In my experience, the biggest legal disputes within the Menno community are always over inheritances. Both sides of my own extended family has gotten snarled up into inheritance disputes of one kind or another. Partly I think due to the failure of my grandparents on both sides to properly plan for and communicate their wishes. Or to do it sloppily.

I'm not actually sure what role the church would have played in any of this because the various heirs involved live in different states and attend different churches. If the church was to have a role it might be before hand rather than after the fact when the law very much does govern

[steve-in-kville]

In my experience, the biggest legal disputes within the Menno community are always over inheritances.

I side with Ken. The above example that I mentioned got extra ugly as it involved substantial land, plus the church took one side and extended family took the other.

[mike]

In my experience, the biggest legal disputes within the Menno community are always over inheritances.

I side with Ken. The above example that I mentioned got extra ugly as it involved substantial land, plus the church took one side and extended family took the other.

I don't think the church's primary role is determining what is legal in a dispute. But I think it may have a role in determining what is ethical or moral, and guiding its members to choose what Jesus would do. I think that's what Paul was talking about.

One example that just came to mind is a story I heard a businessman tell once. His brother was once interested in buying a small subsidiary of his sizeable business conglomerate. So he spoke to his accountant in order to appraise its value, and they talked about how to calculate its market value based on past profitability and so forth. The usual accounting stuff you use to determine business value. But then his accountant asked him something like this. "Are you sure you want to maximize the cost of this business to your brother? After all, to you it is just another thing. But to him it is everything." Based on that, he greatly reduced what he would have charged for the business, and his brother was able to afford the purchase, and has run that business with great success for many years at this point.

That's the kind of advice I think the church should be giving. Yes, lawyers and accountants do their thing. But do Christians really need to go out and use the law to the nth degree to get the best advantage of their fellow believers? No, the church ought to be able to mediate disputes like this in such a way as to call people to do what Jesus would do, regardless of what the law may allow.

[Chris]

I could give a huge answer on this.

To summarize a real true book ->

I wish the church had nothing to do with the government or legal disputes. I wish it wasn't corporate either (501c3). I wish we all would love the church as something different of the laws of the world. I wish we'd want the church and the flock governed by Christ rather than concerns of the legalities often written by unbelievers.

Imagine people fighting their siblings (brothers and sisters in Christ) over inheritance in a pagan court (with oaths) over green printed paper that only has a belief of value. Love of money anybody?