Why Menno Net is not of God.. Repent !

[Sudsy]

Another 2 cents. I suggest locking all threads that he has created. He said he won't return and if we keep discussing him we could be seen as baiting him to sin to defend himself. The less we talk of his involvements here and outside this forum the better. YMMV.

[steve-in-kville]

There was a quote I just saw somewhere and now I cannot find it:

Any relationship or organization that is destroyed by the truth was made up by lies to begin with.

Or something like that...

[Josh]

I listened to the recording and found listening to Robert to helpful and set a good tone for how to deal with things like this. In fairness to the other party in the call, he was also calmer and more reasonable than I have been accustomed to.

With that said, I do find listening to recordings of other people’s phone calls to be very strange, and I don’t think it should be the norm. If there is a need for a public conversation, some other setting is better, in my opinion.

[ken_sylvania]

Yea I learned something too from Robert's handling of the conversation. I appreciated his kind manner of speaking.

[Robert]

Yea I learned something too from Robert's handling of the conversation. I appreciated his kind manner of speaking.

Now you know I have a squeaky voice.

[ken_sylvania]

Yea I learned something too from Robert's handling of the conversation. I appreciated his kind manner of speaking.

Now you know I have a squeaky voice.

OK, you actually succeeded in making me double check whether I mentioned your "manner of squeaking."

[steve-in-kville]

Don't perish reminds me of people that like to impersonate a police officer: they go around public flashing a badge, acting like they have some actual authority. Then the real police catch them and the fake cops argues in circles how he is in the right, has some type of commission from an organization that doesn't exist, etc.

There are entire Youtube channels on this stuff. Apparently, a city in Ohio has a real problem with it and has an entire unit dedicated to catching these guys. The fake cops' meltdowns are legendary.

[Grace]

Nevermind

[ragpicker]

Let’s just call it all what it is, Jim is very clearly a highly narcissistic bully. This type lives to drag people into the pits of confusion, condemnation, etc. Everything they do it an attempt to subjugate and control others. I am of the opinion there’s only two paths to not getting drug into their quagmire or to protect innocent people from being victimized by them:

1. Completely ignore them.
or…
2. Overpower them.

I am less adverse to number 2 than many here would be.

What I am highly adverse to is pussyfooting around and thinking that you can reason with, or reconcile with these types. They are professionals (perhaps at a supernatural level???) at manipulation, and there is no reasoning that will work. None. It is arrogant to think we can out-reason them. Yeah, that stung when I was severely rebuked for my arrogance in another situation with this type, but I went to scripture and the rebuke was correct. Wow, zapped me hard!

You may think you can find common ground to start from, to reason together. It does not work like that. Any attempt at understanding or finding common ground on your behalf is used to subjugate you. As long as you try to understand with normal human reasoning, you will not understand how this type operates. You’re trying to fit them into the patterns of normal human behavior. No can do. They will simply use that to subjugate you too.

just one example of how they operate: they will slither and slide around, redefining the meaning of words as needed, and on the fly if needed. There is NEVER anything concrete there.

BTW, Don’t ever go up against this type if your church has passivity as a predominate cultural ethos. They will be more offended by your “harsh” words than by the severe abuse that has occurred.

Robert hanging up on Jim makes me so proud of him. Robert figured out what he was dealing with and disconnected. Robert called it for exactly what it was. Cheers to Robert! (Robert’s clarity made me cry, so perhaps I am a bit over the top in my praise. If anyone knows what I have experienced in the last two years, you will understand why Robert’s clarity was so touching and healing to me.)

PS. None of this should be construed as rebuke for attempts to engage. I am just offering some clarity on the realities of these types.

[Josh]

RP,

BTW, Don’t ever go up against this type if your church has passivity as a predominate cultural ethos. They will be more offended by your “harsh” words than by the severe abuse that has occurred.

This is indeed a major problem in many plain circles, as eventually your institution ends up run over by sociopaths like this, and the only “sin” anyone gets punished for is not being sufficiently submissive to people who are obviously mentally unbalanced.

2. Overpower them.

I am less adverse to number 2 than many here would be.

I have been a bit to eager to leap to #2 and have some regrets about doing so. (My usual tack with such people is to find reasonable things to say that nonetheless eventually make the other person fly into screaming fits of rage; I’ve dealt with 1 or 2 people in workplace settings this way.)

People who are sufficiently dedicated to passivity have objected to my approach as “you know what you’re doing”, as if the person screaming and yelling has no agency and no control over their actions.